The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

That was quick, I am almost done with Christmas Carol, which I had read before but a long time ago. What strikes me about it on rereading is the detailed description of people and places, which can't be quite replicated in the many plays and movies.
I think the story is very accessible to non-Christians. Although Dickens does allude a few times to "he whose day it is" or something similar, his emphasis is very little on faith or even worship, and much more on how we treat our families, neighbors, and coworkers. The holy image is of a loving home rather than a stable in Bethlehem.

So, are we discussing the Christmas stories in this post?

Zulfiya, in the absence of any of the moderators picking up on these posts and not knowing whether or not it is allowable for anyone else to start a thread, I guess we are discussing A Christmas Carol here.

Robin, I agree with you on the story being accessible to non-Christians, and that there really is very little in the story that alludes to the Christian interpretation of the holiday. I think in some ways, the descriptions of the Ghosts are more pagan-based and carry symbols that are from the time before "Christmas", per se; leaning more towards the Solstice festival. I also agree that it focuses more on how we treat families, neighbors and co-workers, but also the emphasis is on how we treat those we don't know, those who aren't "our own". Dickens makes it plain that we should extend the love and warmth and charity to those we know, to those multitudes that are nameless and faceless to us: the poor, the hungry, those in jail, etc. Here's Scrooge facing off against the two men who come to his office to ask for a donation for "the many thousands in want of common necessities; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts". Scrooge replies "Are there no prisons? And the Union workhouses? Are they still in operation? The Tread-mill and the Poor Law?" The men reply yes, sadly, they are still in operation. Scrooge says that those who are badly off must go there then. The men say "Many can't go there; and many would rather die". "If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population." (The comeback that one of the Ghosts has to these words of Scrooge's later on is one of the wrenching moments in this story: I won't put a spoiler here.)

So topical today, many suggest that the poor, homeless, or unemployed are lazy. A number of commentators labeled "Dickensian" presidential candidate Newt Gingrich's suggestion that children work as janitors in their schools so that they could learn work habits they don't see at home. The best was one columnist who also pointed out that Newt Gingrich is a wonderfully Dickensian name!

Good point about the pagan symbols, certainly the Ghost of Christmas Present is Dionysian in his excess. The introduction to my edition says that it was just about the time of this story that the first Christmas cards were sent, and I believe trees lighted with candles came over to England from Prince Albert's German traditions. Of course there are no lighted trees in the Nativity story, in spite of all the insistence here on trees in public places being claimed as "Christmas" rather than "Holiday" trees.

Sorry for the off-topic, but does anybody know when we will start the discussion of ? It would also be great to know our reading schedule;-) To the best of my knowledge, it was supposed to be an early 2012 read, but I would like to know more details, if possible.

Christopher wrote: "List of Titles & Volunteer Moderators--

Okay, here is the list of Dickens novels for which we have volunteer moderators scheduled--

Hello, Chris, we will be ready to start Nicholas Nickleby in January. The moderator is listed as Krislyn. Can you help get things started> Thanks!

Has anyone tried emailing one of the mods to get Nicholas Nickleby started? Or should I do that?

Well, I have just emailed Silver asking about the next Dickens read, but only in response to his message about the next read by Eliot. I thought two posts in this thread would be enough as a reminder, but it is holiday time, and people must be very busy. I am going to start re-reading the book in January anyway, but it is so much fun to read it together with other reading soul-mates:-)

Well, there re so many threads running here that it must be hard to keep up with them all. For the group I co-mod, I know I appreciate it when folks email me because I can't keep up with all threads. So I'm sure Silver will help us out soon. :)

I'm actually glad for a couple weeks' break anyway, especially with the holidays and my upcoming vacation.

I know - it must be mind-boggling to try and moderate all those threats. They are doing a wonderful job;-)

Nickleby has 65 chapters. Here's what Wikipedia says about publication dates and how the chapters appeared. If we follow that we would need 20 weeks. If we wanted to go faster, we could do 2 installments at once. I am fine with either way.

Nicholas Nickleby was originally issued in 19 monthly numbers; the last was a double-number and cost two shillings instead of one. Each number comprised 32 pages of text and two illustrations by Phiz:
I - March 1838 (chapters 1-4);
II - April 1838 (chapters 5-7);
III - May 1838 (chapters 8-10);
IV - June 1838 (chapters 11-14);
V - July 1838 (chapters 15-17);
VI - August 1838 (chapters 18-20);
VII - September 1838 (chapters 21-23);
VIII - October 1838 (chapters 24-26);
IX - November 1838 (chapters 27-29);
X - December 1838 (chapters 30-33);
XI - January 1839 (chapters 34-36);
XII - February 1839 (chapters 37-39);
XIII - March 1839 (chapters 40-42);
XIV - April 1839 (chapters 43-45);
XV - May 1839 (chapters 46-48);
XVI - June 1839 (chapters 49-51);
XVII - July 1839 (chapters 52-54);
XVIII - August 1839 (chapters 55-58);
XIX-XX - September 1839 (chapters 59-65).

You are a true researcher, Robin. I volunteered to lead the discussion, but if you want, we can alternate and help each other to lead the discussion;-) I will definitely feel much better if I have to share the responsibility:-)I do hope people will participate in this new challenge.

Well, thanks Zulfiya, but Wiki research is the lazy kind! I didn't look at any other sites to verify since this seemed like a good enough breakdown. Thanks for taking on leading for this book. I am happy to help out but I wasn't sure if it had to be someone who is pretty familiar with the book. I distinctly remember reading Nickleby, but it was when I was about 14 years old which was a long time ago!

It seems we have a small but enthusiastic group that has been reading and posting weekly. At first I wondered how it would be to participate in a group that officially has hundreds of members, but it seems people sort themselves out. The regular reads of this group interest me, but I have read most of them and there are just so many other things I want to read as well.

I was intrigued by the mention that each chapter included illustrations. For Christmas I asked my grown children for a couple of the Dickens novels I didn't already own and they came with some illustrations. It's possible there's a facsimile edition online somewhere that has the original Phiz illustrations.

I read the book six or seven years ago, so it is time to re-read it. I usually discover so many wonderful things in a book if I read it again. So far this project has been a wonderful literary challenge and an opportunity to reshape and redefine Dickens as a writer.

Christopher, thank you for monitoring and listening to our concerns about the next read.
Everyone who wants to read the next Dickens novel, namely The Old Curiosity Shop, please vocalize your desires:- loudly, and then we might also discuss when we want to start reading this novel. My idea is to give 8-10 days to recuperate and regroup after evil Ralph and Squeers and use this time to chose a moderator/moderators and agree on the schedule. Just a thought:-) I am looking forward to this new adventure.

I have been wanting to read The Old Curiosity Shop for a while. I haven't been able to participate in the Dickens project apart from the 1st half of The Pickwick Papers but would be interested in joining now.
I would be an active participant but would not be able to take any active role in moderating due to university commitments over the next few weeks.

Is anyone interested in having a side read or a buddy read as a part of Dickens project? I am very enthusiastic abut the idea, but it means we will have to bend the rules of this group a little bit.

To commemorate Dickens lasting influence on modern culture I propose to read a modern novel (here, I said the no-no words, a modern novel)with the strong Dickens twist or very Dickensian in style. If anyone is interested in a concurrent read and if moderators allow this, please post here and let me know. We might actually have a very rewarding reading experience.
Here are my suggestions for a buddy read/side read.

Drood by Dan Simmons
The Last Dickens by Matthew Pearl
Jack Maggs by Peter Carey
Fingersmith by Sarah Waters
And my very dear John Fowles and his The French Lieutenant's Woman.

So if you are interested and if moderators find this time aberration permissible, please let me know. Feel free to add books to this list, if they feature Dickens, his literary heritage, and are reminiscent of Dickens.

Zulfiya wrote: "Is anyone interested in having a side read or a buddy read as a part of Dickens project? I am very enthusiastic abut the idea, but it means we will have to bend the rules of this group a little bit..."

I love the idea. I alsofloated this idea for a main read as well. Rather than a side or buddy read, though, why not take a break from the project for this? If everyone agrees?

I'm not particularly interested in reading a different book although will look at the one you chose as it may take my fancy. I am, however, happy for a different book to be chosen. If I'm honest, I find always having a Dicken's on a the go to be a bit tiring so will probably only join in every other read anyway. This option would give me a break but enable me to read the next novel with you guys

Let me know if/when a discussion of Dombey and Son occurs. The BEST Dickens IMHO

Aley wrote: "Let me know if/when a discussion of Dombey and Son occurs. The BEST Dickens IMHO"

We read them chronologically, so it might take a while. Would you like to join and enjoy the long journey to the station 'Dombey and Son'. It might take a year or more, but it is an uplifting and emotionally empowering experience to discuss Dickens in a close-knit community of reading soul-mates.

Thanks, I would if I had more time. I teach literature and have read them all in a World of Dickens class. Right now am teaching seven classes and taking 2 classes, so not much free time to read them again..enjoy them!!

Well, I think we are all in the same boat of teaching and literature:-)I have read most of them, too. And seven classes could be overwhelming; so, I hear you, Aley.

And I also think that 'Dombey and Son' and 'Bleak House' are his most mature novels - tart, potent, and structurally very well-written.

thanks ...I wholeheartedly agree!

Zulfiya wrote: "Is anyone interested in having a side read or a buddy read as a part of Dickens project? I am very enthusiastic abut the idea, but it means we will have to bend the rules of this group a little bit..."

Zulfiya, I must admit I do not know any of the books you mentioned. However, as long as it is a well-written book I would not mind trying that, too. I just have to see whether I can get the book in English here in Sweden, as my Swedish is not yet the best and, therefore, the book might take up much more time than the reading schedule would allow...

Hedi wrote: "Zulfiya wrote: "Is anyone interested in having a side read or a buddy read as a part of Dickens project? I am very enthusiastic abut the idea, but it means we will have to bend the rules of this gr..."

Hedi, have you tried bokus.com - it is a Swedish book site (as far as I understand), and they have all the titles in English mentioned in this post as well as those mentioned in the second post of the O. C. S. (this week's post). As far as money is concerned, I am clueless how much they cost and whether they are second-hand or brand-new books because the prices are given in Kronas:-) and alibris.com offers free shipping all over Europe for most of their second-hand books.

Zulfiya wrote: "Hedi wrote: "Zulfiya wrote: "Is anyone interested in having a side read or a buddy read as a part of Dickens project? I am very enthusiastic abut the idea, but it means we will have to bend the rul..."

Thank you so much, Zulfiya. I know the website bokus.com, but had not checked it out for those books yet. I had only checked out the classics section there once. I know a very nice book store in Stockholm, too, but also there had only paid attention to their pengiun classics and everyman's library editions.
So as I do not know any of those books, I am not sure which one we should read.
What do the others think? I actually could also take up Barnaby Rudge, which I have not read so far either. I think the context is a little different than most of the novels we have been reading of Dickens so far, and may be more like The Tale of Two Cities, which I read some time ago.

I'd rather move on through Dickens myself, although I very much like neo-Dickensian books. The Meaning of Night by Michael Cox is another possible one.

Sarah Waters' Affinity was terrific but I actually quit reading Fingersmith in the middle in disgust (something I rarely do). Not to give any spoilers but the number of plot reversals just became ridiculous. I think we shouldn't read a neo-Dickens based on something we haven't read the original of yet, such as Drood. or Jack Maggs which is related to Great Expectations.

You are a mind-reader, Robin. I was going to say that we might have several side-reads (with the perpetual weekly dosage of authentic Dickens) because the neo-Victorian books mentioned in the posts correlate with different periods of Dickens career.

My idea is to read something that can resonate and complement the books we have already read, namely Pickwick Papers, Oliver Twist, Christmas Carol, Nicholas Nickleby, and Old Curiosity Shop. The books that fit that period are Mr. Timothy: A Novel - Christmas Carol, Fingersmith - Oliver Twist, (I mainly enjoyed it, but the plot twists were quite far-fetched) and The French Lieutenant's Woman - Pickwick Papers. Different neo-Dickensian books could be read later when we read some other Dickens novels.
My choice is definitely The French Lieutenant's Woman. Well, it is considered the classic novel of postmodern literature.The Times actually included it into 100 best books of the 20th century, and yes, it is elitistic, recognizably Victorian, and very modern:-) My other choice is to read something generally Victorian, for example The Quincunx, The Crimson Petal and the White or your choice, Robin, The Meaning of Night. It has actually been on my book-shelf for two years; as a result, it is dusty now. I know, shame on me! And I would like to have it as a concurrent read. Well, we can start Barnaby Rudge in a couple of weeks and in a fortnight add a neo-Dickensian book.
Anyway, I will be happy to moderate the discussions whether it is the next Dickens or a Dickensian one:-)

I'd be happy to reread the French Lts Woman. I have a fond memory of it from 1971. I was traveling in Europe and had little time to read and no room to carry books (no Kindles or iPads!). But when I got to the house of a friend in Finland she had that book in English and I stayed up pretty much all night reading it. It was like a feast to a starving person! I don't remember any details after all this time except the unusual nature of it.

I was very excited to read The Crimson Petal when it came out but found it didn't live up to my expectations. I haven't read The Quincunx but I have it on my shelf, you're not the only one, Zulfiya, who hasn't gotten to everything on the shelf. I actually listened to The Meaning of NIght on audio, which was very effective.

We should keep in mind that most of these neo-Victorian books, just like the originals, are long, so we would need to allot enough time for them.

Well, reading folks, how about the dates for the next reads? What if we start Barnaby Drudge:-) (a Freudian slip!), I mean Barnaby Rudge on July, 29, 2012 and in a couple of weeks we will also have a slow, weekly relish of neo-Dickensian book. So far, Robin has already read some of the above-mentioned books, and it is also logical to exclude those that cover the Dickens novels we have not read yet, so the choice is between The Quincunx and The French Lieutenant's Woman. Well, we still have some weeks to come to a decision. Anyway, I will post the reading schedule for Barnaby Rudgein the very foreseeable future, namely Monday, CST ;-) Let's enjoy this most underrated novel together and don't forget the Turkish delight of modern fiction!

Hi all. I'm hoping to join in the next Dickens but I start a new job on the 26th so I may be too busy and in need of some lighter entertainment than Barnaby!

Would people mind if I just joined in the neo-Victorian book? By then I may be more settled and have an idea of how much time I'll have in the evenings to dedicate to reading and discussing the interesting title that I am sure will be selected!

Good luck with your new job! And hopefully you will enjoy the neo-Victorian book. Looking forward to discussing it with you.

Heather wrote: "Hi all. I'm hoping to join in the next Dickens but I start a new job on the 26th so I may be too busy and in need of some lighter entertainment than Barnaby!

Would people mind if I just joined in ..."

Good luck from me, too, Heather! We are looking forward to your joining us with the neo-Victorian book.

Thanks! I'll keep at eye on this thread and see which book you decide on. I have no preference as it's a totally new genre for me

Zulfiya wrote: "Well, reading folks, how about the dates for the next reads? What if we start Barnaby Drudge:-) (a Freudian slip!), I mean Barnaby Rudge on July, 29, 2012 and in a couple of weeks we will also have..."

Zulfiya, thanks for making the move here. Starting on July 29th sounds great to me. Then I might have the chance to finally finish "The Red and the Black". The schedule was a little too fast for me with the things I had going on privately and "The Old Curiosity Shop".
In the meantime I am also reading Sherlock Holmes in parallel, though I consider that a lighter read. :-)

So, 29th should be perfect and then we can also decide on the neo-Victorian book. I will surf a little to get some background information on them, as I do not know any of them.

Heather wrote: "Hi all. I'm hoping to join in the next Dickens but I start a new job on the 26th ,,,

A great thing about this group is that you can participate in any, all or none of the reads at a certain time, so you are welcome in any capacity.

July 29 for BR is fine for me.

Robin wrote: "Heather wrote: "Hi all. I'm hoping to join in the next Dickens but I start a new job on the 26th ,,,

A great thing about this group is that you can participate in any, all or none of the reads at..."

Robin, I posted a reading schedule for BR in a separate post:-)

I love this challenge or project so to speak. How fun. Love Dickens. Ive read most seeing how Dickens is my favorite author but Ive just started Barnaby Rudge for the first time! So the two other books I own but havent read I will most likely join in those discussions although you guys have been reading B.R. for some time now and I'm a little behind. Happy reading!

Welcome to the reading family, Allie! I hope you will enjoy the novel. And it is never too late to join. Dickens is fun to read, but it is more fun to discuss his book:-)

Jaq, the next read in the Dickens project is Martin Chuzzlewit. It is a vitriolic satire and has its humorous moments of sheer brilliance. I think we might start reading the book right after the Thanksgiving:-) It is a tad bit anti-American, but hey, it is manageable.

I am actually writing this post because I wanted to ask you, the reading folks, your opinion about polls and quizzes based on your reading agenda. Do you think it will rekindle the project? It is very much alive, but some extra magical spark is always a good idea. Anyway, I am asking you to leave your comments because it is also somewhat dubious, and some might say that it is not an academic read and why we need those polls and quizzes, and some people like to be challenged and tested:-) And yes, I still remember about the new-Dickens read. I am still committed to it:-)

Zulfiya wrote: "Welcome to the reading family, Allie! I hope you will enjoy the novel. And it is never too late to join. Dickens is fun to read, but it is more fun to discuss his book:-)"

Thanks so much!

Well my fellow Dickens project readers, I just placed a big order for used Oxford Illustrated versions of all the remaining Dickens novels (they're pretty cheap, hardback, and have the original illustrations) except Great Expectations which I couldn't find, so I am in this for the long haul. Looking forward to many more months of reading and discussion.

Frances wrote: "Well my fellow Dickens project readers, I just placed a big order for used Oxford Illustrated versions of all the remaining Dickens novels (they're pretty cheap, hardback, and have the original ill..."

I am with you:-)

Me, too. :-)
I cannot wait till my worst work period of the year is over and I might actually even take some vacation to sit in front of the fireplace with Charles Dickens.

How Dickensian! I am very much looking forward to doing the same-makes November almost seem bearable.

I so miss Mr. Dickens. Can't wait for the Cricket on the Hearth discussion.

And as I type this, thought about how will I get a copy. Hopefully, there is an ebook edition.

Lynnm wrote: "I so miss Mr. Dickens. Can't wait for the Cricket on the Hearth discussion.

And as I type this, thought about how will I get a copy. Hopefully, there is an ebook edition."

Lynnm, I am absolutely feeling the same way and cannot wait to start it. At least I can catch up with some other books now (among others Part I and Part II of Goethe's Faust).
BTW, the story is part of my "A Christmas Carol" edition, but I do not know how this is with the ebook editions. Looking forward to our upcoming Dickens discussions. :-)

I got it for free on the kindle, looking forward to joining in the dicussion. Any idea on when it starts?

It starts December 01, 2012. I am posting a schedule today! Dickens is back! Yay!