The Sword and Laser discussion
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A Dance with Dragons
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ADWD: Changing allegiances
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I'm a republican. Waiting for the small people of Westeros to throw off the yoke of monarchy and get their democracy on.
Kate wrote: "I'm a republican. Waiting for the small people of Westeros to throw off the yoke of monarchy and get their democracy on."
Had a chuckle at that one.
Have not given up on the wolves yet as the adventures of Bran continue to leave me scratching my noggin. With only Daenarys it was hard to get behind the dragons and even now, she is only a couple of leagues outside of crazytown. If you count Jon as a Stark, then I am back cheering for them.
As of the end of FFC I was in the Dornish camp (Prince Doran and the Sand Snakes FTW!) but as of 2/3rds of the way through DWD I am keen to see Griff and his posse in action (view spoiler).Either that or Margery Tyrell should just marry all of the Frey men and claim the kingdom by right of sheer numbers.
I like the Starks, and hoped that Rob would make a good King and just keep the North, I thought it was kinda dumb not to fight a defensive fight in the North and let the Lannisters bash their heads against that wall. Over all, I've backed Daenyers for the Iron Throne.
Oh crud, I totally forgot Team Baelish. Littlefinger went from lord of nowhere to master of coin to Lord of Harrenhall to Warden of the East. Seems likely that at some point he might make it to king and it would be hilarious if he managed to stay there (or I kind of suspect that he might get roasted by Dany). Also, Quentyn convinced me that the Dornish side sucks. Sorry Quentyn. You suck.
As long as there are direwolves running around, I'll back the Starks.
With a favorable nod to the Dornish because of those crazy women. Though Quentyns suckery did lower the level of esteem for all dornish.
With a favorable nod to the Dornish because of those crazy women. Though Quentyns suckery did lower the level of esteem for all dornish.
So far I just don't trust the Dornish. They had plenty of opportunity and good cause to jump into the fray,early, but instead they sent Quentyn out to try and tag Dany.If the question is; which family will end up with the Iron Throne, I still think Targaryen have a better chance.
If the question is; who do I cheer for in any situation, it will always be the Starks.
This brings up a whole different way to look at things though. The 7 Kingdoms have to be a finely balanced political entity. Peace only comes with balance. When any one entity (Lannister, Bartheon, Stark, Greyjoy, Doran, Tyrell, etc.) takes some action that shifts the balance then bad s**t happens. All these shifts are petty if compared to what happens if the Wall fails during the upcoming long winter. During the long Summer, there is lots of room for petty arguments and strife. Not so during the Winter. A failure of the Wall would wipe the slate clean, so to speak. Starks, as leaders in the North, have always been the first line of defense after the Wall. Even now we have a Lord Commander of the Watch, a "Ranger", and something unknown (Bran) all involved in this first line of defense and all closely associated with, or Starks themselves. While everyone else is scheming against each other for the Iron Throne or to carve out a new base of power (i.e. Boltons or Baratheons) they are really not focused on the real threat.
I am just guessing now, as I have just reached 38% (Kindle) last night, but one or a combination of entities that can seriously address the problems with the Others will ultimately win the throne and bring Westeros back into balance. So, we have Dany and her Dragons (I played bass for them in high school, jk) with the aid of Aegeon, potentially aligned with the Dornish, coming to the side of the last of the Starks (grudgingly) to support the defense of the Wall. This will be the win in the end. The throne then goes, naturally, back to the Targaryens, the Starks reestablish themselves (through Sansa or Bran)and a new normal or balance establishes itself.
Probably should have started a new thread, but this topic just got under my skin and started me down a whole other path. Oh well...
As we keep seeing people that we thought were dead coming back into the story, I wouldnt rule out Robb entirely yet. If nothing else he could be a zombie king. I still think Jon is going to have to leave the wall. It just keeps coming up too often for this not to be some foreshadowing.
a Zombie king with a direwolf head [image error]
To Curt, I think the entire world will change when the dragons fight the Others. There will be no kingdoms afterwards. But while Kate waits for democracy in Westeros, Martin showed us what he thinks of democracy by what happened to Astapor after Dany left it.
Steir wrote: "Martin showed us what he thinks of democracy by what happened to Astapor after Dany left it. "Of come now, my comments about democracy were tongue in cheek but Dany left an oligarchy ruling Astapor and they were deposed my a man who declared himself king. I don't think that constitutes evidence that Martin is down on democracy.
I don't have much 'house-loyalty' to speak of; I'll gladly get behind anyone who can bring peace to the realm and manage to turn the attention of the capricious lords towards the Wall for five minutes — including Varys.
I think I'm still a Stark loyalist - although that could partly be due to the fact that we have an awful lot of Stark viewpoints giving us their side(s) of the story (Jon (a Stark in my eyes), Bran, Cat, Sansa, Arya).
Plus I think that The Wall is important, the Starks ruled the North and Jon's at The Wall (I've said elsewhere that Jon being 998th Commander suggested to me that there's be an interruption to his reign, to pave the way for his return as the 1000th Commander).
I'm not that big a fan of Daenerys, to be honest, but hey, I'm not a mean person, so it's OK with me if she keeps the Dothraki Sea...
As far as House Lannister goes, I think Tyrion rocks, and I actually kind of have some sympathy for Jamie. But I don't particularly want to see either atop the Iron Throne.
Plus I think that The Wall is important, the Starks ruled the North and Jon's at The Wall (I've said elsewhere that Jon being 998th Commander suggested to me that there's be an interruption to his reign, to pave the way for his return as the 1000th Commander).
I'm not that big a fan of Daenerys, to be honest, but hey, I'm not a mean person, so it's OK with me if she keeps the Dothraki Sea...
As far as House Lannister goes, I think Tyrion rocks, and I actually kind of have some sympathy for Jamie. But I don't particularly want to see either atop the Iron Throne.
I'm undecided! I do know that I immensely detested Cersei from the start! I personally am rooting for (and I know it's pretty impossible) Jon Snow to be King. I agree with Ala that as long as direwolves are around I'm leaning towards the Starks. Of course, Daenarys' dragons could trump the wolves, but I'm she doesn't seem to be very queenly. How about Daenarys + Jon Snow? Then everyone I root for wins.
I really wanted Jon to accept Stannis' offer and take Winterfell. But he will never leave the wall. He's too much like Ned. And can you imagine Lady Stoneheart when she found out?
As much as I would like it to happen I don't think Jon would break his vows again to marry Dany. Besides every time he tries to leave the wall, it keeps pulling him back. Either way Dany belongs on that throne.
(view spoiler)
Wow. Talk about ups and downs. Going into DWD I was fully behind the Dragons and now, 1000 pages later, it seems I have lost all my confidence in Danaerys. She has made a huge mess. I have no idea who to stand behind. It's such a cluster, I can't even begin to sort out. Admittedly, this is a more realistic situation. No obvious hero to follow.
I didn't think about that until this morning. Can Jon be a lord if he is dead (undead)? Will he take Stannis' offer? Will he become the new king of the wildlings? Did the watch know Jon would rise again? Did they do this so he could leave without breaking his oath? Almost all my DWD questions relate to Jon.
Who cares who sits at the iron throne? Don't you understand? Winter is coming!
So there is another possible outcome: The wall, lacking competent command following the death of Jon Snow, is overrun. too busy squabling over the iron throne and weakened by a terrible winter, the 7 kingdoms are overrun by white walkers. The end.
well GRRM said he likes bittersweet endings :D
Why is everybody ignoring one of the most potent force in the riverlands right now?Nymeria and the 100 wolves are terrorizing the center of westeros and Arya's constant dreams must forshadow a deeper future connection.
I can imagine Arya "Perrin" Stark getting drawn to the riverlands and meeting up with the wolves just in time for the final confict.
The damage they could do if led by a faceless girl/warg seems to me to be spectacular.
I agree that Nymeria will be a force of some sort. I have a twist on your idea. My thought on that was Arya will forget, except for her dreams. She will become a Faceless One and get sent on an assignment that takes her through the Riverlands where she encounters Nymeria and her pack and remembers. Much chaos ensues....
In the beginning I was a Stark loyalist. First Ned, then Rob and well, we all know how that panned out. Despite the overwhelming odds against it, I remained a Stark loyalist after FFC. Now, almost halfway into DWD, I have found myself wavering and changing. I believe I am now firmly in the Tagaryen camp. Bran and Rickon are too young and too far afield to make a serious run (I honeslty don't have a clue where their story line is going), Stannis seems like he is a good man, but would make a bad king and the Lannisters still suck (except Tyrion and I don't see that happening). I am curious to know if anyone else has chosen a new potential King to get behind and why.