Beyond Reality discussion

I was surprised that I haven't read anything about this in any of my groups on here at GR, so please forgive the crosspost on the topic.

All Borders bookstores (over 350) will be closing - some as early as this Friday 7/22/2011.

If you've got Borders store credit or gift cards, plan to use them right away - apparently they will only be honoring them until the end of July.

More business-related info on the closing can be found here: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releas...

The Borders here was small and closed some time ago. What will happen to the folks who have the Kobi reader? Isn't that a Borders product?

I beleive the Kobi is a cross functional reader, meaning that you dont have to get your books at Borders

For us Canadians the Borders closing really doesnt really cause us any problem. We went through a big change in the early 00's. There were two major chains and basically the eventually became one chain. Chapters. Apparently they have been doing ok.

To me, the main reason I think they are closing is because they did not embrace the whole ebooks, especially in getting their own ereader rather then go with a third party.

People who have a Kobo will continue to be able to purchase books for it at kobobooks.com, I've heard.

If anyone goes to a Borders to look for bargains as they enter liquidation, try to remember that the employees are having a really hard time right now. (No, I'm not one, but the Borders stores in my area provided a superior shopping experience to the local BNs, IMO. It's been sad to watch the company crater, and I'm just on the outside looking in.)

I'll miss Borders. For some reason, over the years Borders was always the closest chain store to wherever I worked or lived. I used to work in downtown Manhattan and walked up from the subway through the Borders that was on the ground floor of the World Trade Center every day for years, until, well, you know. I don't buy a lot of books anymore, and when I do I usually do it online or at the local indie store, but still, it's always a shame to see a bookstore go out of business, even a big chain one like Borders.

E-books are not the big money makers yet, they will be but not enough that it would topple them. The trouble was stocking, floorspace and management not making the right moves, ie sending all the online sales to Amazon.
There is a pretty good article from an insider and I cant find the silly thing now.
Here is an article that is similar

http://www.shelf-awareness.com/issue....


What I find telling is that quite a few people are attributing the demise to e-books.

I'm definitely sad to see them go. I always preferred Borders to B&N. I even made a concerted effort to buy more online stuff from Borders after my local stores closed down, instead of most of my online stuff coming from Amazon. Ah well...

I also read that Borders went big time into CDs and DVDs about the time downloads really started taking off. B&N had some as well but pulled back and, of course, went into both online sales and ebooks. Borders contracted out their online sales to Amazon... people figured that out and just bought from Amazon directly. Lots of things went into Borders' demise.

In my area, we never had a Borders. The closest was 100 miles away. We had Waldenbooks for awhile (one of their divisions) but we have 2 B&N within 25 miles of us, plus (until recently) a really cool little indie bookseller. I bought from Borders a few times but they were not a big part of my book-buying landscape.

Another thing, Barnes and Nobles is a bigger chain anyway with more locations and big stores, plus they are the biggest sellers of books online next to maybe Amazon.

I like Borders a lot better, especially with their rewards.

Borders in the UK closed about 2 years ago, we just have Waterstones now which HMV are selling off as they are running at a loss.
edit - there aresome small bookshops around but not many.

Kathi wrote: "I also read that Borders went big time into CDs and DVDs about the time downloads really started taking off. B&N had some as well but pulled back and, of course, went into both online sales and eb..."

The couple of Borders stores that used to be near me (they closed down a few years ago) were about 50% CDs and DVDs. A significant portion of the floor space was taken up by they coffee bar, and there was a significantly large amount of wasted empty floor space. For a store as large as these were, they had a surprisingly small number of actual books in the store. I would stop by periodically if I was looking for something specific but they would never have what I was looking for. In all times I stopped in over the years, I don't believe I ever actually bought anything there.

Some of you must have lucked out with better stores than I had in my area.

Our nearest store was similar to yours. Ironically, Starbucks closed as it wasn't making enough money in its cafe and in Borders then the one in orders closed with the book shop. So they have no Stockport presence now.

I will miss Borders. I grew up in Southeast Michigan where the chain started - first store was in Ann Arbor - so I've been shopping there a loooong time.

I've been thinking lately that we're building a world where one EMP could wipe out all or almost all recorded knowledge. Even without the EMP without electricity we can't access the records.

Now, the outlets that still sell print material are coming to the point where you can only purchase the paper product through an electronic medium.

Actually a fairly precarious situation.

That'd make an interesting premise for a story or novel, actually. Scary but interesting.

Hmmm, maybe I should have kept my mouth shut.. :)

There have been a few programmes based on that premise. A scary moment in school was when a child hadn't been picked up, the computers had crashed and we couldn't access any phone numbers for her parents. The head ended up driving her home and hoping that someone would be in. They were.

Random wrote: "Kathi wrote: "I also read that Borders went big time into CDs and DVDs about the time downloads really started taking off. B&N had some as well but pulled back and, of course, went into both onlin..."

This was my experience as well. It didn't endear me to them.

I liked the Borders that was in Downtown Nashville, but it wasn't close enough for me to get there more than one every moth or two.

A while ago I read an article that pointed out that paper is the most durable and long-lasting medium that there is. It made some good points about how file formats become obsolete rapidly. (And of course, hard drives and CDs and DVDs aren't forever either.) It's one of the things that makes me a bit resistant to abandon treeware.

I read recently in the paper that DVDs eventually 'lose' their 'data'. That you could put one into play and that the film would be gone in effect. Is that true? If it is what sort of timeline is it supposed to be?

This reminds me of something that I was wondering earlier ... where does everyone else buy books online? I used to do most of my shopping at Borders. But I was realizing today ... there aren't many things I care enough about to want on release day these days. (And there are still BNs here, where I'll probably go on those occasions I do want something the day it comes out.) But this makes it reasonable to consider trying to save money by shopping online, for the things I'm willing to wait for. So where does everyone else get their new books when purchasing online?

I know about Amazon. (And of course, bn.com.) What else is out there? I prefer not to do business with Amazon when I can reasonably avoid it. Powell's and specialty sites like Uncle Hugo's ... other than that, I'm drawing a blank. (I know about Book Depository, but apparently they are in the UK and have an affiliation of some kind with Amazon.)

That's the problem. Amazon is becoming the Walmart of the web...

Helen, my daughter loaned me a DVD move recently that just wouldn't play. We tried polishing etc. but it seemed to just not want to play. I would play portions and then skip or shut down. So far as I could tell it wasn't damaged at least not that I could see, so...who knows? I don't.

Many of us are now just technology users and if it goes down we're just out of luck.

It'll be annoying if DVDs do 'wipe' after so long. I'm in the UK and we basically have Waterstones. When I first came to Manchester there were about 4 different book stores and I used to wander a different one in each lunch break. They also sell over the net and don't charge postage which is nice.

We have a couple of nice used book stores that so far as I know are still in good shape. There's a Barnes and Nobles here. There were 2 but the floods a couple of years ago got one, I don't know if it'll reopen or not. I dread the loss of book stores. I wonder if we're headed for a world where Ereaders replace print books. No more hard cover novels, no more paperbacks lining shelves...

It seems to me that would be a poorer world.

@Sid - abebooks.com is one I have used several times

@Mike - Which B&N was destroyed? If there was one in Opry Mills I must have completely forgotten it existed.

Mike: I like to think that at some point in the future, there will be little POD kiosks in coffee shops and malls and post offices and convenience stores (etc.) ... and they'll sell books in the format of your choice (dead tree, pixelware, audio). What we probably will see is the demise of the very large bookstore. I suspect, anyway.

I feel like the sensory experience of reading a book and turning pages is important. But even now, a lot of people don't relate to that, and didn't before e-readers existed. Every once in a while I think of that scene in Star Trek II, where Kirk has an actual physical book in his quarters and is reading it. (May have been the third film, actually, I'm not sure.)

Edited to add: Denae, I've shopped at abebooks a few times, but only for used stuff. I don't really think of them as a source for new books. (I just looked up a forthcoming book, and a few places list it, but at a $2-$5 premium, plus shipping. Which seems like a big surcharge for an eight dollar paperback.)

Ah, didn't realize you meant new stuff. It's primarily used.

I remember Next generation when Captain Picard was reading an actual book. Seems to me they explained about it and the material it cost from his allowance or something. There was an episode of the original Star Trek where Kirk met a man who had rooms full of actual Law books gave a pro-book diatribe.

Yes Denae, it was the one in Opry Mills. They have never reopened it (the entire mall that is)(except for the Bass Pro on one end that got back up and running). As I understand it Opry Mills has finally gotten their insurance issues worked out and it's (I think) supposed to reopen this fall. I don't know if all the original stores will be there or not. I know some new ones have signed on.

Mike, was that maybe "Court Martial"? Memory Alpha has a page that lists appearances of physical books in the visual canon, but doesn't seem to mention that.

I ask because recently I got the urge to re-watch episodes of the old series, and have been getting the seasons of it from the library.

Helen wrote: "It'll be annoying if DVDs do 'wipe' after so long."

DVDs don't "wipe". The materials they are made out of start to degrade. I used to know the amount of time, can't remember off hand, but it is something like 50 years if treated well (avoiding scratches, warping, etc). CDs are the same. Laser Discs too, though they are way more susceptible to warping than DVDs or CDs. There's also disc rot, where due to a manufacturing error or contamination, the adhesives or metal portions of the disc start to rot, corrode, etc.

Video tape and film also degrade and, due to their nature, degrade every time they are played as well as just from the passage of time. Same with the old vinyl LPs. Every time the needle passed through the groove, a little bit of that media's life span was removed.

Random, cheers. I'm happy for mine to go after 50 years, I'll probably be dead by then!

Random wrote: "Helen wrote: "It'll be annoying if DVDs do 'wipe' after so long."

DVDs don't "wipe". The materials they are made out of start to degrade. I used to know the amount of time, can't remember off ha..."

Entropy rules!

Snail in Danger (Sid) wrote: "This reminds me of something that I was wondering earlier ... where does everyone else buy books online?"

Well, I buy new books mostly at Amazon.com, but I hardly ever buy new books anymore. Occasionally, with a very good sale and free shipping deals, I'll buy from SFBC (Science Fiction Book Club). And I still go to the physical Barnes & Noble stores around here.

Used? Half Price Books and 2 other used book stores that are not chains, if I want to browse in person. Online used? Better World Books, Awesome Books, half.com (a division of eBay), Alibris, and bookcloseouts.com.

Ya. I buy from ABE pretty often but I'll usually check with my favorite local used book store (Book Attic) first.

Oh sorry Snail in Danger (Sid), ya I think that may have been the episode. (I still think of the first series as "the real Star Trek" LOL).

Kernos wrote: "Entropy rules!..."

Sure does, our only mathematical reason for time having a direction, or Time's Arrow.

As Groucho Marx says "Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana"

Sorry, I just had to do that.

Groucho quotes are always welcome.

Richard wrote: "Kernos wrote: "Entropy rules!..."

Sure does, our only mathematical reason for time having a direction, or Time's Arrow.

As Groucho Marx says "Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana"
..."


Time's Arrow = one of my favorite books

That did make me laugh!

Helen wrote: "That did make me laugh!"

I hope you meant the Groucho quote and not the book Time's Arrow, otherwise I'm just a little bit afraid of you Helen.

I did mean the quote, lol.

Helen wrote: "I did mean the quote, lol."

Phew, it's safe to go back onto the forum again.

www.betterworldbooks.com is a good online booksource. Free shipping within the US and 2.99 internationally. Proceeds go to fund various literacy programs. They have used and new books.

Huh, they have new books too? I've often shopped there for used items. The free shipping is nice.

Yup. And I think there is a way of specifying in the search if you just want to look for one or the other.

Damn I just realized
When the Wife and I were in San Francisco back in 2007 we frequented a lovely Borders at Union Square for Seattle's Best Coffee, back then I wasn't a Starbucks Fan (Still am not but I tend to drink it more these days than I used to). We went for the coffee but realized it had a great selection of Books, Nice SF section. Really a great bookstore. Heck we even bought books, even my Wife and she isn't a reader.
Sad to see you go