The Sword and Laser discussion

I just finished FlashForward today and was positively surprised at how different it was from the TV show. (Not because I didn't like the show, but because I didn't read a story I already knew.)

However, I had some issues with the way the author handled the non-English, specifically the German language parts of the story. I guess that he wanted it to sound more authentic by adding the multinational aspect, but it's always a tricky field, and I was slightly annoyed by how it was done in this case.

This might contain mild spoilers, but nothing really serious.

1. Names: Two of the German characters introduced are called Helmut and Wolfgang. More than that, the one Helmut is supposed to be a young boy in 2009. Now, while Helmut and Wolfgang are very typical German names, but at the same time they are also pretty old fashioned and I wouldn't expect anyone of my generation to be named that way. It feels completely out of place. I get that there are some explanations as to the young Helmut having the same name as his father and I'm not completely sure about names being given in the more southern parts of Germany as well as Switzerland or Austria, but the general feeling is that these are names that are chosen because they sound so very German, but at the same time they somehow make it sound a bit "lazy".

2. Nicknames: Even if someone would be named Helmut in 2009, I can see nearly no way that his nickname would be Moot. Firstly, just because. It doesn't seem right to me. It doesn't sound right. Secondly, even if it would be, the change of the spelling from the German Helmut to the English Moot is strange. I get that it is easier to understand the pronounciation this way, I will give you that, but once again it seems like lazy research.

At the same time, the German word for "mom" or "mommy" is hardly ever "momma". The fitting word would be "Mama" or "Mami" or "Mutti" maybe. "Momma" both with the pronounciation and the spelling sounds strictly American to me.

3. The use of "Jawohl". Unless used ironically I have a hard time accepting the affirmative "Jawohl" as something someone would say in a work environment. Once again, maybe it's a regional thing, but it just doesn't sound right in the scene described.

I realize these really are details and I just react strongly because they strike me as not actually giving the story more authenticity but removing me a bit from the story because the details seem so odd.

What do you think? Should an author, even for these tiny things, do a little research to add a bit more believability to the story as a whole? I would expect someone who actually uses an international setting to ask some native speakers whether the way language and foreign names are used are consistent and believable in the time and place the story is set.

(Please note that these really are pet peeves and I don't mean to sound too hard. It's just an interesting thing that I noticed when reading the book.)

I said much the same about the "language" of physics in my review. The physics talk in the book felt unnatural, much like it seems like some of the foreign-language use was. I found it to be more than a pet-peeve or nitpick, though. To me, it felt forced and detracted from the story.

Anne, I would think an author could take 5 minutes to check with a German friend. Or the editor could! I just hate moments like that, taking you completely out of the story. I was reading a book yesterday where a woman yelled after a boy that he was going to get blood poisoning, but it was in the London of sludge and child labor and I had to stop for 5 minutes to try to figure out if they'd know about blood poisoning or not. Either way it is moments like that that make the story's authenticity suffer.

I noticed also a problem with the meaning of CERN in French
It should be Conseil Européen pour la Recherche Nucléaire, not Européenne as spelled in the book.

Neandertal.

Tamahome wrote: "Neandertal."

Exactly. Even more important since this very location is pretty close to where I live, so STOP SAYING IT WRONG!

It doesn't bother me so much in books, but it bothers me a lot in movies.
I know Russian and it's really weird to have to replay a scene a couple of times to understand what an American actor who's playing a Russian actually says due to the horrible accent.

I dont think an author needs to make sure his names are popular, especially a scifi where he is trying to setup future trends that specifically differ from current ones, but may have their bases in current ones to show an evolution or a change in culture and fads. so the fact that the names/nicknames like moot and momma are unusual seem like a good thing to me at the same time being realistic. The common red jeans and uncommon blue jeans are also used to show this point.

Also we must note that the novel takes place with people and places where there are numerous languages and cultures interacting and influencing with each other.

You are right however that authors should make sure the languages are used correctly and check with speakers, but in the end if he thinks it fits the story then its up to him.

however I only speak English so grain of salt and all that

Great authors do their research. In hard science fiction, they need to be on top of their science and technology because that is what the genre requires. As far as I can tell, Sawyer did a decent job with the science.

You would think that a good editor should have caught the language problems. I don't know how many readers are cosmopolitan enough to notice these flaws, but you'd think it would be easy to catch before publication.

I don't think we should expect 100% authenticy. The science should be solid or at least largely plausible. Flaws in the setting or language need to be small enough that you aren't taken out of the story. Ultimately, that's my main issue. Once I'm immersed in a good story, I don't want some silly flaw to take me out if it. It's like seeing the boom mike dip into the frame during a movie.

I am curious what physics language didn't measure up for people?

Tom wrote: "I am curious what physics language didn't measure up for people?"

It wasn't that it was wrong or necessarily incorrect, but it wasn't natural. For the parts where the physics was a part of the narrative (which was rare enough--usually it broke out, which I found distracting), it seems unlikely that people would talk the way they did. They were explaining principles to each other that if they were particle physicists, they wouldn't have to explain. Also, they weren't arrogant enough (ok, I might be biased on that one). :D

HA ha! I get it. yes they were way too modest. And they did sound a little "book explanation" in tone rather than conversational.

I think someone should write a short story set in the present where people talk like characters in science fiction.

"Tom, I'm going to use my iPhone to call a cab."

"Gee, Veronica, how does that work?"

"You see, Tom, this device contains a miniature radio transceiver that connects to a network of radio towers, which then transmit my voice..."

I'm kind of partial to the movie (John Scalzi) method of info-dumping, where 2 characters talking deliver information. Otherwise you have long info-dumping paragraphs. Sure it should be done in a natural sounding way as possible.

I do realize that the problems I had are just because because I grew up and live in Germany, so you automatically have this kind of "filter" in your brain that upon just hearing a name applies certain ideas about the looks and ages and background to the person.

I have no idea whether the usage of French and Greek names and words suffer from the same problem. I think it's a native speaker problem, basically.

I think, terpkristin is right, as this is not even a language problem, but more a problem of having detailed knowledge about a certain area and then reacting extra-sensitive when something is slightly off. Everyone else is probably just reading on, not noticing a thing, but for you it's a small detail you stumble over that just takes you out of the story, pretty much like an actual bump in the story, that makes you go "Huh. What?".

By the way, Tom is growing more and more popular in Germany right now. So if Helmut Drescher was Tom Drescher instead - actually more believable. Although of course, less typically German.

Interestingly enough, although I am German, I was not that bothered with the names - you never know when they come back into fashion. Who would have though that 'Paul' is coming back into fashion as a name, which for me is feels just as ancient as Helmut or Wolfgang. Nevertheless, stats say that Paul is becoming one of the most used names for young kids. Though the stats also say that this is not true for Helmut -> http://www.beliebte-vornamen.de/4784-...

On the other hand, what bugged me personally much more was the wierd view on global politics displayed in the book. A quick research on the UN system should have shown that all major decisions are taken by the Security Council, while the General Assembly may be nice for televised adresses, has almost no decision-making power. If I would have to make a prediction, I'd say that a decision of this magnitude would far more likely be negotiated among industrialized nations in the G8 or the G20, and most certainly not be put to a public vote.

So maybe the 'huh' moment can be very different for different kinds of people ;)

terpkristin wrote: "I said much the same about the "language" of physics in my review. The physics talk in the book felt unnatural, much like it seems like some of the foreign-language use was. I found it to be more t..."

I'm neither a German language speaker nor a scientist, but the blatant "now let's talk about science! Or quantum theory!" sections drove me absolutely crazy. The idea that two scientists working for CERN would ever need to have a discussion explaining Schrodinger is painful.

The writers of "How I Met Your Mother" just used a German character called "Klaus". Let's hope they did it on purpose to enhance the comedy.

Michael wrote: "The writers of "How I Met Your Mother" just used a German character called "Klaus". Let's hope they did it on purpose to enhance the comedy."

I think it was. The main dialogue around it certainly sounded like they wanted to add an extra level of ridiculousness. Kinda cute, though.

Although my favorite Klaus still is this



Sorry, I just can't not post it.