The History Book Club discussion

For those of you who have completed the book and/or who want to discuss aspects of the book which are beyond our weekly assignments in the non spoiler threads, this thread is a spoiler thread where you can discuss those points.

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by Sally Bedell Smith

This thread is always open for those folks who have completed the book and are ready to do their review. All reviews must be placed here and there are no links or self promotion allowed.

If you have received a free ARC book, you are required to write your impressions of the book telling us how much you enjoyed the book, what surprised you the most and/or any impressions that you might have had while reading the book.

We will be still continuing our journey through the end of March with our weekly non spoiler threads. However, for those of you who have sped ahead; here is the thread where you can post your final thoughts.

Thank you and we hope you enjoyed the book.

Hi All. It has been a while since I posted in any of the boards related to this book since for the most part I stayed ahead of the reading pace set forth and I didn't want to inadvertently let out a spoiler.

As a whole I really loved this book. I thought it might be dry and boring. I have to be honest when I saw Bentley's email I was excited to get a free book no matter the subject. But I have always had an interest in the royal family, after all as Americans those are our roots, however old.

For me the book never got dry or boring it was never full of dates/names with out relevant and interesting stories. Overall, it was very well written! A hefty book to be sure, but Ms. Smith covered a lot of information very well and concisely, I thought.

I have a new interest in the royal family and can't wait to see what happens next. I wish we had better coverage of all the news about them here in the states. If anyone has some links to share to good websites I would really appreciate it. Also, anyone "in-the-know" about the royal family could perhaps share a few more book recommendations? I am very interested in learning more about the next generation of royals that Ms. Smith covered in the last chapter.

I wish there had been more about each of the Queen's children, but it was of course a book about her and not her children.

A couple of things that I found interesting about the queen.

Although the text seems to call out the fact that the queen is very cold not a very loving or personable individual, Ms. Smith went to lengths to try to say that was okay over and over again. I thought this was odd. Almost as if the author was defending the queen's iciness.

Here is a questions for the group. Do you think the Queen was a good mom? For me I would have to say no, but is that really so bad, I mean for the kids yes, but is she a queen first or a mother first? How does her mother/leader role differ from that of the first lady here in the states?

Why doesn't the queen give interviews or write a biography? Over again and again was the point that the British people needed to know her better, wouldn't an interview/book do that?

Lots more to discuss here in this thread but I'll let someone else post now. I look forward to hearing what my fellow history clubers thing of the book!

One last thing, a big thanks to Bentley for getting us the book and organizing such a fun read. Thank you very much Bentley! :-)

Thanks,
Jason

As a monarch I suspect she feels that she is not a media maven and is not into that frivolity and maybe she is not comfortable with cameras etc. I do think that Smith emphasized how caring she was for her grandchildren and for the children who lost their parents. I did see some old footage of her with her children and she seemed very different; I will try to dig it up for you Jason. An excellent review of the book and thank you for posting it so soon. And you are very welcome Jason and also a special thank you for Jill who did the lion's share of the day in day out work for the individual threads.

Jason here is one that you might like:

http://youtu.be/PNgO31HUiFM

and this one:

The Queen with sons Andrew & Edward in 1971

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMtZdB...

Bentley wrote: "Jason here is one that you might like:

http://youtu.be/PNgO31HUiFM

and this one:

The Queen with sons Andrew & Edward in 1971

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMtZdB..."

Thanks for sharing these. I looked for "Royal Family" on Netflix instant, no luck. Not at my local libraries either. Bummer! I searched the Royal Family's youtube page for it and it wasn't posted. Not surprising considering that most people thought it was a mistake.

Here is the link to their youtube page if anyone else is interested: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRoyalC...

I put the Royal Channel on the glossary at the same time that I posted the stuff to you; but thought the glossary would get more action right now.

I too would have loved to see the whole thing.

Jason- I am glad to see someone who confirms my thoughts about some aspects of the Queen's character that were revealed and made me cringe. She is majestic and an amazing diplomat and a source of pride for her country. There many other wonderful words to describe what she has accomplished for her country, she is regal. I thoroughly enjoyed this book. When we stood beside the road to wave at the Queen when she visited Antigua some 25 years ago I found it very exciting. As I read about the missing mothering aspects of royaly and recognised the trauma placed upon family members by virtue of birth it chilled me. I am reminded of King David when he was just a boy facing Goliath and said "Is there not a cause?" Yes, there is perhaps a cause and there are some powerful things to be said about the unifying force of a Queen and perhaps in particular that could be said about Elizabeth. I would have to say Jason that for me that responsibility of loving your child, mothering I think could have had much greater significance attatched to it. It is always easier to see what we should have done after the fact. Elizabeth surely has those feelings too. My heart breaks for her in some ways. My thought is not what having a monarchy costs a country but what cost being a monach costs your family for generations to follow. Very insighful book, very well done. Thank you Bentley and Jill. I have enjoyed adding my 2 cents worth.

I have enjoyed all of your comments thus far. This has been a great journey and we are all learning so much. And you are welcome from both myself and I am sure Jill.

Thank you Barbara......you have certainly put in more than "2 cents worth" and we appreciate your participation and very insightful comments. As you say, the book gives the reader another look at what it must be like to be the Queen.....always in the spotlight, no life of your own, and bound by protocol and precedent. Not an easy position.

Jill wrote: "always in the spotlight, no life of your own, and bound by protocol and precedent. Not an easy position. "

Well said Jill!

I expect there might be some good information on the Royal family in British newspapers. But it would be hard and time consuming to sift through decades of such papers. At least they are available online and a search of individuals can be made.

Review of Elizabeth the Queen

From 1992-2005, my family and I lived and worked for 3 years in France, followed by 10 years in England. As we discovered in the book, these years included some of the most tumultuous for the Royal family. I remember well the swirling and sensational news being made by the family members, as well as the shifts in how much the family was admired by the public, and the viewpoints concerning Charles and Diana splashed all over the news. Largely because of this past experience that we had in Britain, I was thankful for the opportunity and eager to read Elizabeth the Queen. I was not disappointed.

Sally Bedell Smith has done an outstanding job of showing us the present day Monarchy from several different perspectives. When you are living in England, the sense of the Royals living apart and out of the public sight is very much felt. Although the Monarchy is in the background, there is also very much a feeling of it being all around you...mail boxes with E II R on them, money and stamps with her image, and then, of course, the long British history everywhere you go. Ms. Smith did a very good job of conveying this sense of the Monarchy, though no longer in absolute control, still being very much alive and present across the country.

Then, with extensive research and skill, Ms. Smith took us, with her very engaging writing style, right into the homes and palaces of the Royal family. It was remarkable to me how close we were made to feel to the happenings, conversations, personalities, and strengths and weaknesses of the individuals being discussed.

I thought it was also well conveyed how the Queen, though in many regards staying neutral and above the political fray, has used her influence and position to work toward what is good for the nation. This was particularly brought out during intense Commonwealth issues and periods where her presence, steadiness, and influence worked important good for many nations.

Perhaps more fascinating for the reader was how Ms. Smith took us into the mind, emotions, and personality of the Queen. Certainly there is much that is still not able to be seen by us. But what we do learn makes the Queen into much more of a human being...and one that is incessantly handling and dealing with complex issues and situations which leaves one aware of what a remarkable, qualified Monarch she has been.

The book moves quickly and easily and is a pleasure to read. You come away with a much greater appreciation, than what you likely started with, of what a broad and complex job the Queen has, and how well she has handled such a variety of situations over the course of her 60 year reign. She is quite an admirable lady and in many ways is the ideal person for the position she has held.

Of course, depending on which position one leans toward, the Queen and her family can be characterized in many ways. I came away with a greater admiration for her because of what I learned about her. At the same time, the author is clearly a great admirer of the Queen. So, does my admiration come from understanding more of the complexities of her life than previously...or simply because the author painted her in a positive light?

During the horrible period of 1992-93, I remember in Europe the strong sympathy that existed for Diana and the prevalent feeling of cold cruelty that many believed was exhibited by the Royals. It was helpful to me that Ms. Smith explained some of Diana's past history and how it no doubt factored significantly in the troubles she lived through as part of the Monarchy. It gave me a greater understanding of the difficult position of Charles and the Queen in trying to manage the situation.

The lives of the Queen's children have certainly been disappointing and an embarrassment for the entire nation. It seems that much of the responsibility for this behavior can be laid at the feet of the Queen and her husband for putting their national position above their own family. To some extent that is understandable...the Queen really believes that she belongs to the nations and must perform (in every good sense of the word) accordingly. But I believe she has mistakenly overlooked the fact that a healthy family could also have been a good model for the nation...and that the opposite, which is mostly what we have seen, has been a great tragedy and humiliation. So in that sense, she did not succeed where she perhaps could have.

Queen Elizabeth in most ways has been an admirable and ideal Monarch. Her reign has spanned an amazing period in the world's history. The world is very much a different place than it was shortly after World War II. The Monarchy, and the perception of it, has also changed during that time. It makes me wonder...is the Queen the last Monarch Britain will see who is a model of the historical Monarchy? Can the Monarchy continue in its past form, or are we coming to the end of that age?

I have thoroughly enjoyed Sally Bedell Smith's book. She did a very admirable job of intense research, of showing us different sides of the Queen, and of giving us a greater understanding of the Queen than we no doubt had before.

Well said Lewis, you put into words exactly what I have been thinking, "puting their national position above their own family...But I believe she has mistakenly overlooked the fact that a healthy family could also have been a good model for the nation...and that the opposite, which is mostly what we have seen, has been a great tragedy and humiliation. So in that sense, she did not succeed where she perhaps could have." I agree and like the way you worded this.
The Author gave us a multi-faceted feeling, picture and understanding of both the "office" and the person of The Queen.

Well done Lewis. Very well thought out review. And you have so many wonderful details in the review which are very time accurate.

Very nice indeed, Lewis. You have captured the essence of the book and therefore, the essence of the Queen. She is a more complex person than I realized.

I came into reading this with very little knowledge of the royal family. Reading the book made me realize I had a very skewed and negative impression of them and the monarchy as a whole. The most surprising revelation to me was Diana's involvement with the press and how she wielded her public image against her husband.

Bedell-Smith is obviously a great admirer of the Queen, so this biography is not objective. But objectivity is not necessarily the job of the biographer—accuracy is. Given the extensive source notes and bibliography, coupled with the enormous cooperation Bedell-Smith received from Buckingham Palace, I'd say she achieved this. I definitely felt I had a more accurate view of the Queen and the royal family as a whole by the time I finished the book.

I'm hesitant to judge her parenting, as her situation could never compare to that of a normal parent. Plus, I'm not a parent myself. The qualities that have made her such an effective monarch are the same ones that worked against her in a family setting, but she possesses many qualities worth admiring—not the least being a great deal of self-discipline, emotional control, and exhibiting grace under pressure. That's a cue her grandchildren have taken from her, along with a greater savvy about the press.

Overall, I got the impression that she's warmer than she has let on in her public persona. She is definitely more accepting of difficult-to-please personalities (Princess Margaret being one example) than we ever knew previously. I think we've seen some evidence of a more spirited personality since she's letting that shine through in her later years.

I'm really glad to have read this. I came away with a more positive and humanized impression of the Queen and the royal family than I had going in. Bedell-Smith is a wonderful writer and I can't wait to read more of her work.

A very nice overview of the book, Stacy. I agree that the Queen is painted in a different light than the one in which we see her. She may have one of the hardest "jobs" in the world and has done it to perfection. It is a testament to her in these days when monarchy is not the accepted form of government.....constitutional or otherwise....that she continues to receive loyal support from the citizens of Britain and the Commonwealth. The author has done an admirable job with this book.
If you are interested in reading another of this author's works, I would recommend:

by Sally Bedell Smith

Thank you, Jill. I will check that out.

Great comments all. Sally told me that she enjoyed reading these comments very much.

I think what surprised and impressed me the most about this book is the massive amount of research that went into it, and how seamlessly all of that research was brought together. Citation after citation from people with a personal knowledge of the Queen (and the Royal Family) was woven smoothly into the narrative of the text - Sally makes it look effortless, though it must have been a massive undertaking.

Sally does more than write a biography - this book is more than dates and facts - it is a portrait of a personality. She takes the misconception of the Queen as stuffy and distant and cold, and proves her to be warm and funny and downright emotional at times.

One section of the book that stands out to me is the section on Diana's death. With great delicacy, Sally shows us the Diana that the palace insiders saw, the one the press never did. Sally fills in what the press ignored or didn't know - that the Queen tried to help Diana, and that Diana's personal issues played a large role in her difficulties in her marriage. Sally also separates the events depicted in the movie The Queen into fact and fiction.

Lastly, I also liked the information Sally provided about those surrounding the Queen, especially her family members. She paints a picture of the people who most influence and are influenced by the Queen, and gives just enough detail to fill in most people's gaps in knowledge while not also writing several secondary biographies in one.

Wonderfully informative and readable!

Great comments and review Cheryl. I am sure that Sally will enjoy reading about your observations.

Thanks to Sally Bedell Smith for a spectacular look at Queen Elizabeth II. The book was full of insight. As a child I viewed the old TV program "Queen for Day." I will never again have envy for any queen but particularly Elizabeth II. Hers has been a duty filled life with sacrifice at great cost. She has been criticized and her every moment seems to be under scrutiny. Certainly she also had some spectacular moments and ones in which she was as regal and graceful as one could ever imagine a queen to be. Sally shared some of those moments with great insight. I trust Elizabeth II might have some years as just a doting grandmother and greatgrandmother. It is a pleasant thought of her enjoying some years without duty being a priority. Until then reign on Elizabeth II!

What a wonderful summary of the book, Barbara. We have been lucky to have Sally join us periodically and give us even more insight.