Goodreads Librarians Group discussion

Should a book that belongs in a series also have the series name in the original title field?

eg

Book Title (Series, #1)
or
Book Title

?

Just book title.

But previous threads about this have indicated we should not change entries that already include the series in the title. Just don't add them going forward. :)

Jennifer E. wrote: "But previous threads about this have indicated we should not change entries that already include the series in the title. Just don't add them going forward. :)"

We're talking about the "original title" field not the "title" field. What you're referring to exclusively effects the "title" field.

Sorry - didn't catch that word in the sentence.

Thanks Experiment. I know I'm squabbling over details here, but what about those books that have the title and the series in the original title field? Should the series go or remain there?

Natasa wrote: "Thanks Experiment. I know I'm squabbling over details here, but what about those books that have the title and the series in the original title field? Should the series go or remain there?"

Can you give me an example?

For those books that already have this in the original title field

Book Title (Series, #1)

should the series info stay or go?

Natasa wrote: "For those books that already have this in the original title field

Book Title (Series, #1)

should the series info stay or go?"

They should go. =) Goodreads titling conventions don't apply to the "original title" field. The word "original" supersede those rules.

This also means if the book was originally published in a non-English language but was later translated and published in English, then the "original title" should be in a non-English language.

Key word here is "original."

Thank you! :)

Experiment wrote: "Key word here is "original.""

I agree.

Lots of series books have the Series Title in the original release, so I wouldn't go changing them unless you know for sure that they weren't there.

I'm not questioning the rule, but how do I tell which is the original title? The only field I've ever edited is the one that is called 'title' at the very top of the page. I've never edited the field that says 'original title' under work settings. Is the title at the top sometimes the 'original title'? (Also, going by memory, most of the time I've been editing already existing series titles to make them consistent. I have a lot of series in my collection and this is the only way I've found that I can see the series when looking at my book list. If there's another way, please share it with me.)

EC wrote: "I'm not questioning the rule, but how do I tell which is the original title? The only field I've ever edited is the one that is called 'title' at the very top of the page. I've never edited the fie..."

No original title is ever "Blah Blah (Blah Blah series, #1)". The "(Blah blah series, #1)" is a thing that was invented by Goodreads. If there's a particular book you're unsure of, I encourage you to ask it here.

You never edited the 'original title' field below? Why does the librarian change logs say differently? I smell a programming bug.

Experiment BL626 wrote: "You never edited the 'original title' field below? Why does the librarian change logs say differently? I smell a programming bug...."

Nope, I've been extremely careful NOT to edit that field. I will be doubly careful in the future.

Is the title at the top of the page ever the original title? There was one book I edited just a few days ago, where I added the (series) to the title at the top of the page. It didn't have any series info before I edited it. After I added the series info to this one field and went to look at 'My Books' the series name was listed twice. I definitely didn't enter it twice, so I removed it from the title field. Then it did not appear at all with the book title. So I added it back, and that time it appeared only once. (It was Popped by Carol Higgins Clark, when I look now I see that the original title field has the (series) info. The Librarian change log, in 'Librarian edits for Popped' only my edits to the title field are listed. But the 'Librarian edits for this Work' does say I edited the original_title field the first time I edited the title (see column 1 for matching time) (it also shows this as the previous edit to the work:
"Sandra updated the work Popped (Regan Reilly Mysteries, #8) by Carol Higgins Clark
original_title: 'Popped: A Regan Reilly Mystery (Regan Reilly Mysteries (Paperback))' to 'Popped (Regan Reilly Mysteries, #7)'
Mar 23, 2010 04:16pm (#2766561)"

How does the original title field work? Is there a "master" record for the title, so that when the title is changed for that record it also changes the original_title? Was I possibly changing that record and didn't know it?

EC wrote: "Experiment BL626 wrote: "You never edited the 'original title' field below? Why does the librarian change logs say differently? I smell a programming bug...."

Nope, I've been extremely careful NOT..."

Please accept my apology, then. I now think it is a programming bug. Changing the info in the 'title' field shouldn't change the info the 'original title' field AFAIK.

Yes, some the title at top is the original title. Original title is the title of the very very 1st edition of the book. Sometime, as Sandra, said it may include a subtitle and that subtitle is part of the series' title.

For example, "Dragon Strike: Book Four of the Age of Fire" is acceptable in the 'original title' field because, well, it is the original title. However, in the title field, sans original, it would be "Dragon Strike" or "Dragon Strike (The Age of Fire, #4)".

Experiment BL626 wrote: "EC wrote: "I'm not questioning the rule, but how do I tell which is the original title? The only field I've ever edited is the one that is called 'title' at the very top of the page. I've never edi..."

Ebooks frequently come out as Blah Blah Blah (Blah, #1). Usually, the author has a 3 book deal etc, sometimes they are just hopeful.

EC wrote: "There was one book I edited just a few days ago, where I added the (series) to the title at the top of the page. It didn't have any series info before I edited it. After I added the series info to this one field and went to look at 'My Books' the series name was listed twice. I definitely didn't enter it twice, so I removed it from the title field. Then it did not appear at all with the book title. So I added it back, and that time it appeared only once."

The reason for this EC, is that there was an extra space at the end of the title ie Blah Blah (Blah, #1)X. Where X = a space.

If you see this again just edit out the extra space and it should be good.

I think if you have multiple editions of a book and edit one of them, the automated system will pick up original title and original publication date based on the edition with the earliest publication date. (I thought that they were going to turn that off after so many publication dates were lost in the Great Amazon Purge, but maybe it's still in place for titles.)

No, it was never turned off and there's good reason not to do so. We just didn't run a script forcing an original pub date for each work. They'll still populate when a work is edited.

Sandra wrote: "Experiment BL626 wrote: "EC wrote: "I'm not questioning the rule, but how do I tell which is the original title? The only field I've ever edited is the one that is called 'title' at the very top of..."

Really? Do they literally show "blab blah (blah, #1)" on the cover-art, title page, and the copyright page? I find it hard to believe. Do you know an example of such an ebook you can give to me? :)

I don't know about copyright page, but cover page and/or title page is not uncommon with dead-tree books in some genres. If the author has a contract for a trilogy, why shouldn't the book state as much?

rivka wrote: "I don't know about copyright page, but cover page and/or title page is not uncommon with dead-tree books in some genres. If the author has a contract for a trilogy, why shouldn't the book state as ..."

I'm questioning whether they actually have the "(blah, #1)" part verbatim in their original title.

Probably no comma. Otherwise, I believe I have seen that.

Experiment BL626 wrote: "I'm questioning whether they actually have the "(blah, #1)" part verbatim in their original title."

Not necessarily formatted as such. Here are some examples, all free nook/kindle books that have series information on their covers.

Shatter, Out From Edom, The Softwire: Virus on Orbis 1, The Birth of Zakaria

Experiment BL626, some random examples, incl a pb

All of Viola Grace's Sector Guard series - 1 to 25. 1st bk

Vicky wrote: "Not necessarily formatted as such."

But I am talking formatted as such. Original title is original title, exempt from Goodreads' title conventions.

Sandra wrote: "Experiment BL626, some random examples, incl a pb..."

I see series' title as the subtitle. I do not see them in parentheses and with a comma in this "(blah blah, #1)" setting which proves my point.

This one:

Its *original* title should be "Carinian's Seeker: Book 1 of the Vampire Council of Ethics" based on the cover-art. I already mentioned in comment #16 about how some books include the series' title as their subtitle. The example I gave was actually a real book.

I'm sorry to say, Sandra, but all the examples you've given prove my point. None of those series' title as formatted this "(blah blah, #1)" way as part of their original title.

GR has standards around formatting hence our use of the (blah blah, #1) in the series and for consistency I would want to use that format where ever we list a series.

Paula wrote: "GR has standards around formatting hence our use of the (blah blah, #1) in the series and for consistency I would want to use that format where ever we list a series."

Title field, yes. But in the original title field?

Yes - "everywhere we display series information" includes that field.

If a series as others have indicated in other messages exist then the format of that should be consistent and since I am fully aware that we have been discussing the ORIGINAL title field for the whole of this discussion the bolding is unnecessary.

An Original Title does not preclude GR having and following standards.

In the same way if the Original Title or indeed title was all in capitals GR standards is to use sentence case in both places.

Paula wrote: "Yes - "everywhere we display series information" includes that field.

If a series as others have indicated in other messages exist then the format of that should be consistent and since I am full..."

I thought rivka said the opposite, that it does preclude GR having and following standards? At least it's how I interpreted her comment in message #11 and how she didn't outright say how I was wrong in the first couple comments of mine when I answering Νατάσα about this issue.

Experiment BL626 wrote: "Paula wrote: "Yes - "everywhere we display series information" includes that field.

If a series as others have indicated in other messages exist then the format of that should be consistent and s..."

If the series info is part of the original title title as in msg 25 and 26 then it should display consistently as per GR Standards in my opinion

Paula wrote: "If the series info is part of the original title title as in msg 25 and 26 then it should display consistently as per GR Standards in my opinion"

I see. But you can see where I am having problem with this. Because to me, original is original. It's not truly original anymore once it is effected by GR title convention. I guess we have a miscommunication about what original means.

You are reading too much into that post of mine. I agree with Paula.

Going by academical standards the original title is what is shown on the copyright page - regardless what the front cover or inner cover says. And if said original title says it's part of a series, then it's okay. If not it's not. And if you don't have said book physically in your hands to check, the national libraries are your friends (though, even there mistakes occur in data).

I've always viewed the purpose of the original title as being more helpful in cases where...

1. Books are published with two different names, i.e. The Truth About Mr. Darcy was originally published as Affinity and Affection.

2. Books are printed in multiple languages. Like The Three Musketeers' original title is Les Trois Mousquetaires.

I don't see the reason of a separate standard of data entry for the original title field.