Georgette Heyer Fans discussion

My least favorite lead character is Sherry from "Friday's Child". He pretty much turned me off that whole novel. He acts like an immature, violent jerk through the whole book.

My least favorite supporting character would be old Lord Darracott (Hugo's grandfather) from "Unknown Ajax". Sarcastic, bad tempered, sharp tongued. No one pleases him & most everyone is afraid of him.

My least favorite character lead so far is no doubt Adam Deveril form A Civil Contract.He was so hopelessly in love with Julia throw most of book and he didn't really even see Jenny for the wonderful person she was till almost the last page and even then I don't think he will ever forget Julia(who I disliked throw most of the book)and love Jenny like she deserves.

Have to agree with Cindy re Lord Darracot, awful old man. Old Mr Penecuik from Cotillion is pretty bad, but even he , I don't think, would ever be so rude and aggressive as Lord D.

I like to think though, Nicole, that Adam Deveril will realise what a prize he has inadvertantly won in Jenny. He already was doing so and I fondly imagine when his son is a little more grown and maybe a daughter has joined them he will look one day and think " Good God, I've got it all! "

Julia of course, will be forever casting him languishing "Ah if only it could have been ..." glances and imagining him to be stil secretly in love with her.

Freddy from cotillion, Judith and Julian from regency buck.

Veronica wrote: "Freddy from cotillion, Judith and Julian from regency buck."

What!! Freddy from Cotillion?? Why? He is so sweet and funny!

I LOVE Freddy! At first glance he seems like a dull, dimwitted dandy. As you read further, he displays hidden depths. He's sharper then you think!

Cindy wrote: "My least favorite lead character is Sherry from "Friday's Child". He pretty much turned me off that whole novel. He acts like an immature, violent jerk through the whole book."

I'm reading Friday's Child right now and I agree with you on Sherry so far I'm more then half-way thought it and can't stand him.He make's Adam form A Civil Contract look like catch.I didn't think I could come across a hero in another Georgette Heyer that I disliked more then Adam.I would love this book if Sherry wasn't in it.

edit:I'm almost done and Sherry has gotten better(seems to be growing up).

edit 2:Finished the book and ended up liking him ok.But even then Sherry and Adam are tie for my least favorite leads.

Sakura Yue wrote: "Veronica wrote: "Freddy from cotillion, Judith and Julian from regency buck."

What!! Freddy from Cotillion?? Why? He is so sweet and funny!"

He is too boring, at least that what i remember :P

Having recently reread A Civil Contract, I find that Adam Deveril does nothing for me. He's dull and a little self-pitying. And I can't stand Julia. There marriage would have been a disaster. They would have been bored with each other inside a year, and she would have had affairs because she can't stand not to be loved by someone.

Vidal in Devil's Cub. He's a nutcase. if i had a daughter, i wouldn't want her having anything to do with him.

People either love Vidal, or hate him.

He's controversial.

Frank & whoever the female love interest was from Why Shoot a Butler? They are both so horrible they deserve each other.

But then on the other side there's the couple in Duplicate Death

Louise wrote: "Vidal in Devil's Cub. He's a nutcase. if i had a daughter, i wouldn't want her having anything to do with him."

Vidal in real life would be hell. He's fun to read about though.

Of the actively irritating side-characters, I nominate Eugenia from The Grand Sophy. I hated her, and when she read Sophy's letter by the end, I thought that if it had been me and not Cecelia in that room with her, she'd get slapped.

Emily wrote: "Louise wrote: "Vidal in Devil's Cub. He's a nutcase. if i had a daughter, i wouldn't want her having anything to do with him."

Vidal in real life would be hell. He's fun to read about though.

Of..."

I always feel a bit sorry for Eugenia. She is a character created to contrast with the perfect Sophy, and doesn't stand a chance. She's just there to be defeated.

The one I don't like is Tiffany from The Nonesuch
I really think she needs a good slap

Jay-me (Janet) wrote: "The one I don't like is Tiffany from The Nonesuch
I really think she needs a good slap"

tiffany is a very stupid girl. she is irritating.

I really dislike Tiffany and Eugenia and Vincent (the jerk cousin from Unknown Ajax) but I have to remind myself that I wouldn't have liked the stories as much without them in it.

Having just read it, Deb's brother from Faro's Daughter, I didn't really see any redeeming qualities in him.

How could I forget Dolph's mother. She was actually wicked rather than just unpleasant.

Louise Sparrow wrote: "Having just read it, Deb's brother from Faro's Daughter, I didn't really see any redeeming qualities in him."

Also the brother in Why Shoot a Butler. Just an all round bad book!

But yes I didn't like Kit either. & family gatherings probably wouldn't be much fun if both Kit & Max were present!

The book Sylvester hogs two of my least-liked characters: Sylvester himself and Ianthe.

And the mean, mean Mammas! Mrs Haddington from Duplicate Death, Olivia's Mother and Dolph's Mother from Cotillion, and Emily Laleham's Mother from Bath Tangle.

Critterbee wrote: "The book Sylvester hogs two of my least-liked characters: Sylvester himself and Ianthe.

And the mean, mean Mammas! Mrs Haddington from Duplicate Death, Olivia's Mother and Dolph's Mother from Coti..."

Don't forget Phoebe's stepmother. & her father who is too weak & selfish to protect her.

Least favorite heroines: Amanda from Sprig Muslin, Hero from Friday's Child, Judith from Regency Buck, Cherry from Charity Girl, Pen from The Corinthian

Least favorite heroes: All of the Alastairs, etc.; Philip from Cousin Kate; from Faro's Daughter, from Regency Buck; Max from Faro's Daughter

all her mystery characters are least favorites

Can I add an unpopular opinion? I am not overly fond of Jenny from the Civil Contract. The whole book has been lauded by many fans to be more 'realistic' than GH's other novels, but I can't see why that's so. She is like a doormat, completely subservient, and puts up with a husband who ignores her, prefers another, and is touchy about her doing even the most basic things towards which she has a right. If I were in her shoes, I'd have lost it long ago, and I was irritated with her for being so weak throughout all of the story, until I realised that there was no reason why she should have agreed to marry him to begin with! I know her father wanted her to, but she didn't have to agree. All of GH's other heroines would have scoffed at having to marry a man they knew full well didn't love them, but what does she do? She's almost creepy with her surreptitious love for Adam, and what she wouldn't do for him. In the end, after she obediently conformed to every abuse and insult thrown at her, she has a happy ending in the form of figuring out that she and Adam will be comfortable together. Something of a downer, imo, and she needs to grow some balls!

Emily, I’ve been reluctant to say so before, but I agree with you! Marrying someone who doesn’t love you feels very distasteful to me, and if I’m reading a novel for the romantic fantasy (I admit it), that scenario is a big turnoff for me. I like that Jane Austen’s heroines don’t have to make that degrading choice. Bracing for incoming fire now!

Emily, your summing up of Jenny makes me think of Griselda in Chaucer's "Clerk's Tale"! Every time I taught that story, I thought that she ought to have spat in her husband's eye. Most of the class seemed to feel the same.

Abigail wrote: "Emily, I’ve been reluctant to say so before, but I agree with you! Marrying someone who doesn’t love you feels very distasteful to me, and if I’m reading a novel for the romantic fantasy (I admit i..."

Yes! We are meant to feel sorry for her when she marries Adam, who doesn't love her but then it was her choice to marry him! I really felt sorry for Adam more than anything.

MaryC wrote: "Emily, your summing up of Jenny makes me think of Griselda in Chaucer's "Clerk's Tale"! Every time I taught that story, I thought that she ought to have spat in her husband's eye. Most of the class seemed to feel the same."

Oh dear, yes! Except in Chaucer it's supposed to be a parable to Job and God, whereas in Heyer it is meant to be read straight! But you are right, it evokes the same 'ew' response. No thanks, I prefer my Grand Sophy, or, if it must a marriage of convenience, my Horry!

Jenny holds up well in a bad situation, one in which MANY people think very badly of her. But she does not become bitter or hurt anyone.

Jenny was raised by a tyrannical, though indulgent, personality. In that time, children were meant to submit to their parents, and wives were supposed to submit to their husbands. It is not so much an expectation today in many societies.

In that case, I think Jenny upgraded from one tyrant, to a much lesser tyrant. And she was goofy over him, that is true. But she did not ever belittle anyone. She did not even let Julia reveal her horrible true nature.

This book is (as said before) a discussion generator. It is unlike other GH novels. It is uncomfortable. There is marriage without initial mutual love, a challenging class, wealth and background difference, the pain of never being able to be with the one you (think you) love, opinionated and disapproving family on both sides, slight health issues, and some good old Napoleonic Wars thrown in for good measure.

Overall, I do like the book. And I do like Jenny.

It would have been nice if she had an alternate story, in which she is not in love with Adam, and refuses to marry on any terms other than her own. She sets up house magnificently and holds a competition calling all different types of men to compete in categories such as standing up to her father, investing soundly in the funds, animal husbandry and the swimsuit competition.

1. Jenny was not compelled to marry Adam:'I wasn't compelled. Papa wouldn't do so. ...he is too fond of me to constrain me and -- too kind ...'

2. "If their union was devoid of romance, less embarrassment attached to it than he had foreseen. Jenny was sometimes shy, but never shrinking,"

3.Jenny in conversation with Julia,'He couldn't have married you, Julia! He was all to pieces!' ...'He didn't choose between me and you, Julia: It was between me and ruin,'

I can't find the quote but it had to do with Jenny's partiality for Adam when she had met him at Julia's some time before.

So you see,Jenny was not forced to marry Adam. In fact marrying him was a dream of hers even though the circumstances were not. She got at least part of what she wanted to begin with and by her sensible actions got at least Adam's respect and affection.

Jenny was no wishy-washy heroine but a woman with cleverness and generosity and one of GH's best female characters.

Perhaps some people dislike her because she loves someone who does not return her affections? Is that it?

Abigail wrote: "Marrying someone who doesn’t love you feels very distasteful to me, and if I’m reading a novel for the romantic fantasy (I admit it), that scenario is a big turnoff for me."

Ah! It IS!

Escaping into a romance where there may be some drama, but underneath, the hero and heroine are into each other from early on in the story.

That is understandable. We each have our own type of 'catnip.' And I think everyone here is respectful enough to recognize that.

Abigail, I don't think anyone "dislikes" Jenny because she marries a man who doesn't love her. If anything, they're uncomfortable with her situation, but I suspect that most readers also trust that, this being GH, Adam will come to love her by the end.

Now if it were the other way around, and the heroine married a man whom she didn't love, I think we might dislike her, but, again, we'd probably have faith in the outcome.

Emily, I hadn't thought of the Job analogy for Griselda! Although I'm a medievalist, most of my Chaucer scholarship is self-acquired, and I missed that parallel. Of course, God didn't try Job himself so much as let Satan try him, and the Clerk DOES tell his tale right after the Wife of Bath tells hers. On that subject, my own favorite of the Canterbury Tales is the Franklin's, although I doubt that it won the dinner when the group got back to Harry Bailey's place.

But back to the topic! :) Maybe Julia's hissy fit at the end made Adam realize quite a few things!

Critterbee wrote: "Perhaps some people dislike her because she loves someone who does not return her affections? Is that it?"

No, sorry, to make it clear: for me it is not that I dislike her because Adam doesn't love her. I dislike her because she meekly follows him around, obeys everyone of his whims, and trembles whenever she thinks she displeased him. I particularly hate the scene where Adam tells her he won't have her change his home, and she meekly goes about improving everything without changing it. It just enrages me: he makes an unreasonable, stupid-ass demand, and she never says anything! Nothing about her own rights, about her wishes, and dreams. Nope. Adam says it, so it's law. ARGH! Can you imagine Sophy doing that? It's just so annoying. And the lesson in the end (if lessons can be drawn from GH novels) is: don't be romantic, with your own wishes and dreams and opinions (like Julia), but be meek and quiet and timid and obedient (like Jenny). Eventually your husband will be glad that he has the slave for a wife, and not the woman who is her own person. Ew. And then for Jenny: why does she not deserve a husband who is head over heels in love with her? I mean, honestly, she's the only plain heroine in Heyer, and as such she is the only one who gets a husband who lusts after another, even if he dislikes her character. I mean srsly? You could argue that Friday's Child is similar, but then Hero does do her own stuff and then she runs away when she's had enough and, in addition, she's super young and has nobody, no parents or anything like that, to rely on. Jenny comes from a wealthy background in which her father would have given her anything!

MaryC wrote: "Emily, I hadn't thought of the Job analogy for Griselda! Although I'm a medievalist, most of my Chaucer scholarship is self-acquired, and I missed that parallel. Of course, God didn't try Job himself so much as let Satan try him, and the Clerk DOES tell his tale right after the Wife of Bath tells hers."

Yes, I think it's the proximity to the Wife of Bath story that makes it so strange that it should have such an opposing moral. It's a little ambiguous though, if I am not mistaken, because the clerk says wives should not be expected to be like Griselda, but he says it's because such people don't exist anymore, which you could interpret as though it were meant that he regretted it wasn't so :)

Emily, I have so much to say on that subject, and I suspect that you do, too, that maybe we'd better move to one-on-one! Unfortunately, when I tried to email you individually, I found that I couldn't. On the other hand, I think *you* could email *me*. Otherwise, I can add something like a spoiler alert when I'm about to hold forth on Chaucer. :)

☆ Ｃａｒｏｌ ☆ wrote: "Critterbee wrote: "The book Sylvester hogs two of my least-liked characters: Sylvester himself and Ianthe.

And the mean, mean Mammas! Mrs Haddington from Duplicate Death, Olivia's Mother and Dolph..."

yes, aside from Vidal in Devil's Cub, isn't Phoebe's stepmother the only other character who is actually violent?

Haven't read them all, but most of the characters in the Unknown Ajax didn't work for me. The hero was decent but boring. The heroine seemed to be modeled on Venetia-like lines but couldn't hold a candle to her... Maybe it was all those years living with such a mean grandfather? And the grandfather seemed quite similar to the vicious patriarch in Penhallow....

Yes, the Darracott family did remind me before of the Penhallows, but the book itself also reminded me of The Grand Sophy and of Stella Gibbons's Cold Comfort Farm (somewhat in reverse). In each one, a relative somewhat different from the rest of the family arrives to stay and straightens all kinds of matters out for the family. True, Anthea isn't a very well-defined heroine, but in The Unknown Ajax, it's the hero who is the focal character! And Hugo, boring?! I'd call him fascinating! It was fun to see who first saw through his awkward country boy act and to watch *him*see through a situation that was there in front of the reset of the family for some time before the story began. Then, he alone has that brilliant idea that saves the family honor and in the process draws the family--some members, anyway--closer together. His rather non-U habit of referring to family members as "our ____" tended to emphasize that aspect of his role.

Grandfather Darracott is much like that Penhallow fellow, only with the vulnerability of being able to see that he has been a fool.

I did think Hugo was a bit boring, but very likable! Does he ever mess up? At least Sophy messed up with Sir Vincent. Well, her plans failed, but it all worked out in the end.

i don't find Hugo at all boring. He is my favourite heyer hero. he is clever and shrewd but not a showoff, and he has a great sense of humour. i particularly like the way he deals with the disagreeable old grandfather.

Yikes, I didn't mean to disparage Hugo as an individual. He is extremely decent and patient, and far more worthy than many of the other members of his family. But, he was just less exciting to me than many of Heyer's other heroes. (Of course, compared to some of them, that isn't a bad thing!) In fact, out of all of Heyer's heroes he is probably the only one I can think of that would meet with Anne Bronte's approval. As far as husbands go, he would probably be the most faithful and trustworthy and caring out of all of Heyer's characters. But, from a personal preference, I just prefer her naughtier heroes. It's rather like the love/hate relationship I have with Fanny & Edmund in Mansfield Park.

Hadley wrote: "Yikes, I didn't mean to disparage Hugo as an individual. He is extremely decent and patient, and far more worthy than many of the other members of his family. But, he was just less exciting to me t..."

I recently read "Mansfield Park" fifteen times in as many months. I started not liking the book, but reread it in honor of the 200th Anniversary and because it would be the theme of the 2014 Jane Austen Society of North America Annual General Meeting. I came to love this most complex Austen novel and to love Fanny and Edmund for a multitude of reasons. But I know where you're coming from.

My least favorite GH character is Lady St Erth, who seems to embody Lady Catherine de Bourgh in "Pride and Prejudice" as well as Aunt Norris in "Mansfield Park." I keep hoping she takes herself off to the house in London, the Dower House, or Studham . . . it not the Jamaican Property! I hope Drusilla chases her off.

Hadley wrote: "Yikes, I didn't mean to disparage Hugo as an individual. He is extremely decent and patient, and far more worthy than many of the other members of his family. But, he was just less exciting to me t..."

I've always found Edmund rather dull, and sanctimonious, but i don't think Hugo is dull at all. i think the way he plays up to the family's perception of him as common is very funny. Faithful, trustworthy and caring are dull qualities if not levened by intelligence and humour, which i think Hugo has. Quick witted as well, the way he deals with the emergency at the end. certainly less dull than many of the heroes who are always fussing over their cravat being tied right or something. Anne bronte might have liked him i suppose, though if any of the Brontes had a sense of humour, they kept it to themselves. jane Austen would definitely have appreciated him though.

greetings from Viang Vieng. too hot to go out at the moment, so I thought I would pop in here
For me there is difference between characters that are meant to be. unlikable such as Grandfather Darracott & ones that are meant to be sympathetic like Adam from a Civil Contract. I remember Oliver from a Lady of Quality also unlikeable

Bad boys have their own appeal, and have since the beginning of time!

Sir Gareth from Sprig Muslin (my favorite GH hero) is a lot like Hugo, but not so physically threatening. Gareth is intelligent, has a generous, forgiving heart, appreciates the absurd, and would be a very tolerant (and tolerable) husband. :)

I haven't read "Sprig Muslin" in, like, forever. Your description of Sir Gareth makes me want to read it again. I love this type of hero. Yours could also be a description of my favorite Mr. Beaumaris. Indeed, his appreciation of the absurd was one reason he fell in love with Arabella: "Decidedly this absurd child was a refreshing change from the generality of damsels!"

Further delightful proof:
"The same delight in the ridiculous which made him wear a dandelion in his buttton-hole for three consecutive days . . . made him deeply appreciative of the situation in which he now found himself; and he beguiled the tedium of the drive to Mount Street in wondering when it would cross his absurd love's mind that the disclosure, following hard upon the wedding-ceremony, that she required a large sum of money from him without a moment's loss of time, might be productive of a little awkwardness. He could not resist picturing the scene, and was till laughing softly when he reached his house. . . ."

mr beaumaris is a bit condescending towards Arabella i think. enjoying the thought of her discomfiture. i am not sure i would want to marry someone who considered me absurd and made a mock of me like that.