The Sword and Laser discussion

Just like the title says. I've been watching the Game of Thrones series lately and noticed how awesome it is. Then I realized that I'm reading a series of books that could make just as awesome a TV series but in the SciFi genre.
The Lost Fleet by Jack Campbell
It has the amazing back story, fantastic characters that develop through the story, and multiple enemies for the main characters that are slowly revealed through time in the book.

Any thoughts on if The Lost Fleet would make a good TV Series and if not then what SciFi book series would you prefer to be made so that SciFi can compete with Fantasy

Peter F. Hamilton - Pandora's Star/Judas Unchained

It would probably be prohibitively expensive, but you could certainly get a few good seasons out of David Brin's Uplift saga.

Short scene from Pandora's Star made at a school:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q6OOn...

Science fiction had its "Game of Thrones". It was called "Star Trek".

Star Trek had no boobies.

If we are talking about literature that has been made into a TV series then I would argue that "The Walking Dead" is the current sci-fi equivalent to Game of Thrones.

Great story, great characters and, like G.O.T, no one is safe. Any character can be, and are, killed off at any time.

Tassie Dave wrote: "If we are talking about literature that has been made into a TV series then I would argue that "The Walking Dead" is the current sci-fi equivalent to Game of Thrones.

Great story, great characters..."

Calling The Walking Dead a good Sci-Fi TV Show is like calling Merlin a great Fantasy TV Series.
Want I'm wanting if a TRUE Sci-Fi TV Series LIKE Star Trek was (the older ones not the newer one). Give me Spaceships is basically what I'm wanting

I've wanted a Vorkosigan miniseries for years.

Sci-Fi has several Game of Thrones. In literature I can give hundreds of examples but one will be more than enough:Frank Herbert's Dune.

When it comes to TV series issue(as the original post focused on)these two will be plenty: Battlestar Galactica(reimagined)and Babylon 5.

And I must add, in my opinion, Babylon 5 is better than GoT tv series, and Dune series is better than "A Song of Ice and Fire" series. Actually when I first read ASoIF, I thought "at last fantasy genre caught up with the sci-fi; this is the fantasy equivelant of Dune"
And I say it as a huge fan of G.R.R.Martin, and an avid fantasy literature enthusiast.

It is just that science fiction never had any problems presenting human behaviour,and dealing with socio-political, philosophical and moral issues realistically. On the contrary, sci-fi thrives on it. It was the fantasy genre that could not break its good vs. evil pattern. And when G.R.R.Martin finally deconstructed those tired tropes on a huge popular scale(there are of course many predecessors) it made an impact. But in essence, this is just fantasy catching up with sci-fi.

I agree with what several of you guys are saying with the fact that Sci-Fi has had several very big TV series but can you name a good Sci-Fi TV series that has been on par with Game of Thrones fame within the past 5 years? BSG Feels like a life time ago and got a little rusty there at the end in my opinion. Babylon 5 was great but not many from my generation are willing to go back to a time with such horrid graphics just for the story (I am but I feel like I'm in the minority)

I agree with Rasnac that Sci-Fi has always done a better job bringing deep emotional issues to the forefront and asking you to confront them then Fantasy has.

In all honesty I'm just so fan boying over The Lost Fleet that I would probably crap myself if they came out with a TV show on it...heck even a movie would be great.

Hunter wrote: "BSG Feels like a life time ago and got a little rusty there at the end in my opinion. Babylon 5 was great but not many from my generation are willing to go back to a time with such horrid graphics just for the story (I am but I feel like I'm in the minority)"

Stop making me feel old!

Seriously, I think we need to tie people to their chairs and force them to watch Blake's 7. :)

If fame was a correct way of determining quality of an artwork, then Twilight and Harry Potter would be the best fictional works of the human history :)

And in my opinion, present company excluded of course, the individuals who watch science-fiction for CGI should not watch science fiction at all. And I'm not trying to be a snobby elitist here. Just think about it: all special effects get old eventually, but good storytelling never gets old. If one cannot enjoy a brilliant story because of old or poor special effects, then that person denies him/herself almost all of the greatest movies and tv series of science-fiction. He/she will never be able to enjoy any of the Star Trek series and movies, original SW trilogy, The day The Earth Stood Still(the original one),2001:The Space Oddysey,The X-Files,original Dr.Who, Alien, Metropolis, Planet of The Apes,Invasion of The Body Snatchers, Forbidden Planet...list goes on and on and on. And without being able to enjoy these great classics, honestly, what is the point of being a sci-fi fan? ;)

Okay, the fund drive is over so I don't feel awkward about "pimping" this on the boards.

http://pledgespacecommand.com/

Marc Scott Zircree (Writer/Producer, TNG, DS9, Sliders, etc..), Ian McCaig (Concept artist, Harry Potter, Star Wars EP 1,2,&3), Doug Drexler (Visual Effects, Star Trek (tv and film), Battlestar Gallactica, Razor,Caprica), and other talents are committing to an independent production that is tentatively seven episodic stories and 4 feature length films that follow the story of two families across 200 years of earth's pursuit of reaching for the stars.

Rasnac wrote: "If fame was a correct way of determining quality of an artwork, then Twilight and Harry Potter would be the best fictional works of the human history :)"

Don't forget to add The Hunger Games, The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, and Fifty Shades of Grey, which has become popular within the year.

Craig wrote: "Okay, the fund drive is over so I don't feel awkward about "pimping" this on the boards.

http://pledgespacecommand.com/

Marc Scott Zircree (Writer/Producer, TNG, DS9, Sliders, etc..), Ian McCaig ..."


Wow! This sounds very promising.

I think a key part of Ice and Fire's success (commercially and in achieving what it does as a freaking great text) is the fact that the setting isn't *that* different from something in our world (at least, at the start of the series on the surface). "It's medieval times and seasons last years instead of months." One of the greatest things about science fiction and fantasy both is getting to see great, fantastical other-worlds, but that requires a lot of effort and time to get the reader up to speed on how everything works. I mean, even lord of the rings begins with "concerning hobbits." That's a massive barrier for people who haven't attempted reading genre fiction before. It's also a fairly significant hurdle for the author who wants to spend time exploring the voices of his characters in this cool setting rather than the rules of this setting itself (though obviously, as all the examples above of amazingly deep, rich works prove, loads of authors can handle that hurtle).

ANYWAY. Assuming that everything I just said isn't a load of BS, I think that means what science fiction needs to have a *real* "Game of Thrones" is a setting that isn't all that different from our world...but a great amount of the examples above that come closest to a GoT are things like Battlestar Galactica. We scifi fans don't always want something that's basically our world....we like scifi in the first place often because we get to have experiences so completely alien to our own lives after all! Or as Hunter said above, "Give me spaceships."

So for a Scifi GoT to take off, it's going to need to go against what we all desire in the first place. Which I guess is kind of what Martin did- I doubt that when he approached his publisher with the pitch "Ok, I am going to write a fantasy novel, without elves, dwarves, wizards, or overt magic (at least for a few thousand pages), and with a heavy focus on politics and courtly life over say epic quests, and also btw it's going to be the most depressing thing you've ever published" that that publisher said, "ah yes, fantasy fans will love this!"

And then, even if someone did create a really great drama that focused most heavily on an interesting large cast of characters, their personal journeys and their relationships, with a backdrop of a plot that is more about surviving in a depressing universe where the problem is more politics than it is a great universal evil to be defeated, in a setting not so incredibly unfamiliar to us, a work that didn't even leave the confines of our solar system- wait a second. I think that already *was* aired EXCEPT FOX CANCELED IT AFTER 12 EPISODES.

ANYWAY. Assuming that everything I just said isn't a load of BS, I think that means what science fiction needs to have a *real* "Game of Thrones" is a setting that isn't all that different from our world

So....X-Files?

I think the point is we need something new

Alterjess wrote: "ANYWAY. Assuming that everything I just said isn't a load of BS, I think that means what science fiction needs to have a *real* "Game of Thrones" is a setting that isn't all that different from our world

So....X-Files?"





I think you missed the "Give me Space Ships" part :P

Am I the only one who liked Stargate Universe?

Craig wrote: "Am I the only one who liked Stargate Universe?"

Yes....yes you are lol

Craig wrote: "Am I the only one who liked Stargate Universe?"

It started ok then just went downhill. Like a lot of recent sci-fi shows.

Alex wrote: "I think the point is we need something new"

No love on this thread for Doctor Who then? Long running sci-fi. Still currently going. Has a spaceship. Is awesome! :P

Craig wrote: "Am I the only one who liked Stargate Universe?"

No, Stargate Universe was an excellent series that was great right up to it's premature cancellation. Very strong central performances and an intriguing storyline.

I have to chime in for Stargate Universe, too. It did have a weak stretch of episodes in there while they found their feet, but the show came back strong. By the end of the series it was one of the best written shows on Television.

This was, of course, why it was canceled.

And I have to voice my love for Doctor Who. The show is going strong again, and while made on the cheap, looking better than ever.

But I think the idea in this thread is that the Sci-Fi community needs a new blockbuster, like what Game of Thrones did for Fantasy. We had that back in the 1970's with Star Wars, which lead to a new enthusiasm for Sci-Fi media across the board. The problem is that this has become our legacy. It has become normal. Our background noise, if you will. We need a Sci-Fi show to bring it up to a new level.

Doc

Well, part of the problem (and there is a thread that already covers this) is that too many Studio/network types think Sci-Fi is about the eye candy.

Story isn't the priority. However, audiences are also growing jaded (spelled "spoiled") as to the work and expense that goes into effects.

I felt BSG was a success because it wasn't about a spaceship and robots. It was about people in space and strife of survival and existence, and a tiny sliver of hope.

Stargate Universe lost most of my friends who were Stargate fans because it turned dark like BSG and lost the levity found in the rest of the Stargate franchise. The one genius move I felt in the show was making the smartest person on the ship a young nerd that the majority of the viewing audience identified with. The bad thing was that he had no one to play off of.

The problem in "needing another Trek" is that it is difficult to make the kind of leap in imagination for our time that was made back then. That type of original vision isn't something that rolls around many times in a lifetime. How many people can create a new vision for science that takes us beyond our current technology and doesn't rehash something already put forth? We have Sci-Fi that covers starships, faster than light travel, worm-holes, time travel, alien invasion, intergalactic relations, interstellar bug war, giant intelligent alien robot civilizations...what else do you think there is out there that is original?

In terms of adaptations, I can't think of a current wildly popular sci-fi book series on the level of GoT or Harry Potter where everyone had heard of them and was either waiting for the next book to come out or knew someone who was.

I think the Vorkosigan books would make an absolutely kickass TV series, but they'd be starting from a much smaller fanbase.

Dune has the heft and scope of GoT, but it's (a) old and (b) been tried and failed several times already.

I can't think of a current SF author who is as widely known and read as GRRM.

(I suppose there's Hunger Games, but the movie wasn't anywhere near the kind of hit that the Harry Potter movies were.)

I think it was the tv series that made the GoT books wildly popular and not the other way around. I don't know anybody outside of people who were already genre fans who had heard of it before the tv show whereas the general puplic knew about Harry Potter before the movies.

TV wise Sci Fi clearly has far outshined Game of Thrones. Star Trek of course, Battlestar Galactica, X-Files, Farscape, Babylon 5, Stargate, Lost, and many others. On the fantasy front you've got Game of Thrones and then you have to drop to Hercules or Xena which were never really meant to be taken seriously. True Blood maybe but its not really fantasy in the sense we are speaking of.

Literature wise though yeah Sci Fi really doesn't have anything since Foundation that feels like Game of Thrones or even Wheel of Time. Everything I've been able to come up with that is well known enough or critically lauded enough tends to come with a caveat of "the first book is great but the rest not so much" to which I speak of things like Dune or Rendevous with Rama.

Rama has been dramatized on BBC Radio.

My first reaction was 'Dune' but I now realise you mean on TV.
I have loved DR Who since the early 1970s and sometimes feel I'm living from episode to episode but I'm also hankering for an alternate scifi universe, preferably involving Space.
I was a great fan of B5 and BSG but at present Space seems to be confined to the big screen.

I think that GoT popularity is being wildly exaggerated. Outside of SF Fantasy circles it remains largely unknown compared to Harry Potter or Star Trek. HBO has limited viewers and, according to my bookstore buddy, all the GoT books you see on end caps in the store are pretty much staying there. At one time, about a year ago, there was a surge in popularity, but that has now fizzled out.

Spartacus creator is doing a sci-fi show, so I'm sure we'll see something different...

"Incursion" follows a squad of soldiers fighting a war against an alien race, and each season the show would be set on a different planet. "Grittily realistic combat, darkly complex characters and intrigue on a cosmic scale will permeate the tale of fighting men and women facing the pressures of war and an enemy unlike any ever seen"; that's how Starz described "Incursion" in a press release.

André

Hunter wrote: "I agree with what several of you guys are saying with the fact that Sci-Fi has had several very big TV series but can you name a good Sci-Fi TV series that has been on par with Game of Thrones fame..."

GoT also has a huge advantage over BSG because it's on HBO. It has a HUGE viewing audience.

The closest thing I can think of is Doctor Who- but that is much more popular in Britain than in the US. Fringe is close- sort of. But overall good Sci-Fi doesn't seem to do well on regular US television stations. Look at Terra Nova and Firefly for example.

Alterjess wrote: "I can't think of a current SF author who is as widely known and read as GRRM."

But George R.R. Martin is a science fiction author. Unless Dying of the Light and his countless SF short stories suddenly aren't science fiction any more.

Kathryn wrote: "GoT also has a huge advantage over BSG because it's on HBO. It has a HUGE viewing audience. "

That's simple not true. HBO has around 28 million subscribers. ScFi Channel can be found in around 95 million homes.

EDIT - Opps, should have put these data links in:
GoT: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/cu...
BSG: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009...

AndrewP wrote: "That's simple not true. HBO has around 28 million subscribers. ScFi Channel can be found in around 95 million homes. "

Not sure where that data comes from. The 28 million is right HBO in the US only. Encore is currently number 1 in the US at 33.2 million. So the 95 million figure for SyFy must include international subscribers. HBO is currently available in 151 countries.

And GoT apparently has the lead in the non-legal viewing world as well, being the most pirated TV show - http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/...

HBO blows away Syfy in quality.

Kim wrote: "AndrewP wrote: "That's simple not true. HBO has around 28 million subscribers. ScFi Channel can be found in around 95 million homes. "

Not sure where that data comes from. The 28 million is right ..."

HBO also has a more... mainstream name/viewership. People who normally wouldn't watch a Sci-fi/Fantasy show will watch it on GoT which is how GoT and True Blood have reached such a large audience.

SyFy also has a reputation for making campy/cheesy/bad shows and movies while HBO has a reputation for creating quality shows.

Battlestar Galactica is the sci-fi equivalent of Game of Thrones - centred on flawed characters, moral ambiguity, politics, religion, survival, stunning visual effects and music. In fact, it goes into more character depth than GoT due to more episodes, fairly self-contained (but set in a story arc) and little scenery change, with an emphasis of character over plot. The plot seems simple and self-contained to begin with, but gradually branches out into mythic scale as the seasons progress.

They are certainly different shows and genres, but would appeal to the same audiences for the most part, due to the sensibilities of the writers (Jane Espenson has written many episodes of Battlestar Galactica as well as a few Game of Thrones episodes). The thing to remember is that sci-fi and fantasy have very different strengths and weaknesses, and they should play to those strengths (whilst still both telling good stories and creating great characters).

If you simply like good sci-fi or fantasy, there's also Doctor Who, though is completely tonally different from GoT or BSG. It's the most unique creation of television or fiction in general, since it knows no boundaries of genre (although it's usually classified as sci-fi due to the main character being alien). It's always been strong in the storytelling department (it did the plot of Alien before Alien existed), but hasn't had the best budget. However, these days it's limited budget doesn't show whatsoever, and it's production values can rival GoT or BSG despite a fraction of the budget. And the storytelling continues to excel, especially after Steven Moffat took over in Series 5 (2010), which is the best place to start from.

No idea on numbers, but since SyFy is available on most basic cable packages and HBO requires a special payment, I'm guessing that they have potential for more viewers. I know my dad, for example, refuses to pay for HBO, but routinely stops on SyFy for whatever crap is on while he's channel surfing.

Back to the original topic, would a SF GoT-like show have to be based on a book? If not, then I agree with the nods to Star Trek, Dr. Who, etc. I can't think of any sprawling epic SF series I've read that would fit in a TV show...maybe the Kevin J. Anderson books?