SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Hi folks- I was prompted to ask about this based on another thread (about "GoodReads Bullying"). What do you do when you read a book, and you just don't like it but you also want to approach the review in a diplomatic manner? I usually try to focus on the plot points and characters that did not click with me, but I am curious as to what others write.

In related topics:

1. What if you want to give a negative review but also want to encourage the author (because- say- they are your Goodreads friend)?

2. Do you leave really long reviews for the books you hate, or really short ones.

3. Do you ever feel like you missed something when everyone else gives a book 4 or 5 stars and you just have no interest in it?

4. Do you ever have the urge to bash a book only because it's popular? (I get that urge sometimes, usually I resist, but I feel it)

5. have you ever written a negative review and then immediately felt bad about it and gone back and changed it? And- as related question- have you ever given a book a break (and an extra star) because you feel bad for the author?

1. What if you want to give a negative review but also want to encourage the author (because- say- they are your Goodreads friend)?

If I felt the book was really bad, I’ll refrain from reviewing and send an email. I have done this once before to a very young author.

2. Do you leave really long reviews for the books you hate, or really short ones.

It depends on how much I hated the book. Some I just “meh,” (short review) others inspire BOOK RAGE (long and ranty review). Either way, I try to clearly state why I hated the book.

3. Do you ever feel like you missed something when everyone else gives a book 4 or 5 stars and you just have no interest in it?

All the time!!!! I’m always confused and bewildered when I hate what everyone else loves (See GRRM).

4. Do you ever have the urge to bash a book only because it's popular? (I get that urge sometimes, usually I resist, but I feel it)

Nope. I feel the urge to not read a book because it’s popular. I guess I’m a hipster that way. ;-)

5. have you ever written a negative review and then immediately felt bad about it and gone back and changed it? And- as related question- have you ever given a book a break (and an extra star) because you feel bad for the author?

Not really. Due to GR bugs I try to type my reviews elsewhere first. So usually I read over it (editing, etc) before posting. Sometimes I realize I get a little nitpicky (I try not to take notes while reading) due to my academic background. 99% of the time I remove the nitpicking before posting.

I have given an extra star to a book because I felt bad for the author. But it doesn’t happen often.

Regarding point one, if I want to encourage a young author, I try to point out what I did like about the book, and what parts need improving.

I try never to just say I hate a book--thought for me hate is strong word--but many are just not my cup of tea. I try to be as honest as possible.

I personally do not use vulgarities (This book sucks) but to write something like...the ending was too weak; such and such plot hole was so big it invaldiated the story; the main character was a steroe type or whatever.

Imho only, if negative reviews bother you a LOT, you are in for a rought time. Very few books are universally liked; and very few are flawless.

1. What if you want to give a negative review but also want to encourage the author (because- say- they are your Goodreads friend)?

I don't friend any author who can't keep their work separate from themselves. If I do genuinely like the author and want to encourage them, I leave the review on a positive note, i.e. recommending their book to the kind of readers who would like it.

2. Do you leave really long reviews for the books you hate, or really short ones.

How I feel about the book doesn't affect my reviewing style. I write long reviews, period.

3. Do you ever feel like you missed something when everyone else gives a book 4 or 5 stars and you just have no interest in it?

Yes. Many times.

4. Do you ever have the urge to bash a book only because it's popular? (I get that urge sometimes, usually I resist, but I feel it)

Yes. Sometime.

5. have you ever written a negative review and then immediately felt bad about it and gone back and changed it? And- as related question- have you ever given a book a break (and an extra star) because you feel bad for the author?

Nope.

Mary JL wrote: "Regarding point one, if I want to encourage a young author, I try to point out what I did like about the book, and what parts need improving.

I try never to just say I hate a book--thought for me ..."

Sadly, the book was in dire need of repair. It was functionally broken and there was very little good I could say. If I had posted an actual review the best I could have done was give her an award for showing up. It would have boiled down to "Good Ideas!"

What I did instead was to tell her my thoughts, give her some suggestions and a list of authors to read. I told her that I thought it had promise but that she should hone her craft and work on being consistent. And that she needed a Beta Reader and an Editor.

Of course, I'm neither of those things but that's as nice as I could be.

My only standard for my reviews is that they have value and meaning to me. My main motivation for writing them is to force myself to think more about what I've read. For this reason, I have no interest in qualifying or softening my impressions, or even making them constructive, but I also see no point in simply slamming a book without recording any explanation of why I hated it. If that was all I wanted to say, a one-star rating would suffice.

In terms of not caring what anybody else thinks, it probably helps that almost all of the authors I read are famous enough, old enough, or dead enough that I'm confident they'll never see my reviews.

Dylan wrote: "My only standard for my reviews is that they have value and meaning to me. My main motivation for writing them is to force myself to think more about what I've read. For this reason, I have no inte..."

I can agree with that.

If it sucks, I'm going to flat out say so and why I feel that way.

I don't care if anyone agrees or disagrees. Or if it's too harsh or mean or any of that nonsense. If it illicits enough dislike in me to even bother actually writing a review, I'm going to unleash the god damned kraken :P

Unleash the KRAKEN!!!!!!

1. What if you want to give a negative review but also want to encourage the author (because- say- they are your Goodreads friend)?

If I want to give a negative review, I will, regardless of whether I know the author. I am not a critical reviewer, and the scoring system in Goodreads reinforces your opinion ("I didn't like it" "I liked it a lot" etc.) of the book, which is not always dependent on technical merits.

I have friends who are authors, and I didn't enjoy their book, so I indicated that. I wouldn't be a very good friend if I lied to them about how I felt.

2. Do you leave really long reviews for the books you hate, or really short ones.

Depends on the book - The length of my reviews are directly proportional to how much I have to say about them, not how much I enjoyed them (I also write long and short reviews of books I like/love).

3. Do you ever feel like you missed something when everyone else gives a book 4 or 5 stars and you just have no interest in it?

Not really. Not everything is everyone's cup of tea, but I am mystified by raging love for some books I didn't care for *especially* when my goodreads friends also all rate a book low that everyone raves on. I have a pretty diverse goodreads friends list.

4. Do you ever have the urge to bash a book only because it's popular?

Not at all.

5. have you ever written a negative review and then immediately felt bad about it and gone back and changed it? And- as related question- have you ever given a book a break (and an extra star) because you feel bad for the author?

Never. I usually take my time making reviews. I will occasionally edit reviews, but only if I thought of something I would like to add or change, not because of remorse.

1. What if you want to give a negative review but also want to encourage the author (because- say- they are your Goodreads friend)?

If I'm trying to be supportive, or nice, I think I tend to do more "constructive criticism" type things. But I tend to feel a bit resentful about this, and also perturbed with myself for not just saying what I really think.

Recently I read a book where the author gave me a copy for review, and she was really eager - a bit over-eager, really - but I felt bad just lambasting it, so I tried to be more "this part is confusing and needs work" and all, but then the author kept asking for specifics and sort of started treating me more like a copy-editor or beta-reader, and it irritated me but, well, I still wanted to be "nice".

I'm still kind of pissed off about the whole thing, obviously, and as much at myself as at the author - but, anyway, I don't want to do a whole rant on how we're conditioned to be "nice" even to our detriment, sometimes, and how it's a bunch of bullshit... so...

2. Do you leave really long reviews for the books you hate, or really short ones.

If I hate it then they're probably a bit longer 'cause I get ranty. But I can leave longish reviews for things I liked, too.

Anytime that I have something to say my reviews can get on the long side.

The shortest reviews are for books I'm meh about.


3. Do you ever feel like you missed something when everyone else gives a book 4 or 5 stars and you just have no interest in it?

Yes, sometimes.

Conversely, I also sometimes think that others are simply less-critical and easy-to-please than I am.


4. Do you ever have the urge to bash a book only because it's popular? (I get that urge sometimes, usually I resist, but I feel it)

Just because it's popular? I don't think so or, at least, I resist the urge.

But if it's popular and I can't for the life of me figure out why it's so popular? Then yeah...


5. have you ever written a negative review and then immediately felt bad about it and gone back and changed it? And- as related question- have you ever given a book a break (and an extra star) because you feel bad for the author?

I do think that I give indie authors, or even just debut authors, a bit more leeway than I give more established authors.

As far as changing a negative review - I sometimes will write a profanity laced rant, and then go back and change it to something a bit more palatable for general consumption, but I never tend to actually post the initial rants.

I do this for thread replies sometimes, too. :>

± Colleen (of the Crawling Chaos) ± wrote: "but then the author kept asking for specifics and sort of started treating me more like a copy-editor or beta-reader, and it irritated me but, well, I still wanted to be "nice"."

This post will cheer you up: When I bought your book, I didn't sign up to be your beta reader.

± Colleen (of the Crawling Chaos) ± wrote: " ...I sometimes will write a profanity laced rant, and then go back and change it to something a bit more palatable for general consumption..."

- awesome!

Experiment BL626 wrote: "This post will cheer you up: When I bought your book, I didn't sign up to be your beta reader. "

I love that post! ANd that's what I think every time some jackass whines "But your review isn't constructive!!" My response? I'm not paid to be constructive. Go get a f'ing beta reader.

Experiment BL626 wrote: "This post will cheer you up: When I bought your book, I didn't sign up to be your beta reader. "

Thanks for the link. The picture at the top made me smile. :>

The rest made me a little depressed that this wasn't a one-off thing and seems to be a sort of epidemic.

I do have to say, though, that I'd be way more pissed if I'd paid for the book, so at least I have that consolation. ;)


@Armand - :D

I do have to admit, though, that some get a bit ranty anyway.


@MrsJ - Exactly! My review is supposed to be my subjective response - which, for me, is often part analytical and part emotional - and not a freaking workshop critique!

1. What if you want to give a negative review but also want to encourage the author (because- say- they are your Goodreads friend)?

Just try to let them down gently, I think. Whereas if it's an author I don't know, I probably let them have it with both barrels. As it happens I've just given a 1-star review on Goodreads to a book by a professional novelist, and I was pretty forthright in my comments. This isn't because I think he won't read it - though he almost certainly won't - but because I reckon a professional writer (a) must have developed a thick skin by now or they wouldn't be a pro, and (b) because when a pro writes something substandard, they're letting their readers down, and they deserve to be told straight.

2. Do you leave really long reviews for the books you hate, or really short ones.

I usually write medium-length reviews on everything. The difference is that a bad book by a pro brings out the assassin in me; I write to the same length, but I dip my pen in vitriol. Oh, and I enjoy doing it. Probably shouldn't admit to that, but it's true.

3. Do you ever feel like you missed something when everyone else gives a book 4 or 5 stars and you just have no interest in it?

No, I'm really arrogant, and I tend to think everyone else just doesn't have high enough standards. (I'm really not a very nice person.)

4. Do you ever have the urge to bash a book only because it's popular? (I get that urge sometimes, usually I resist, but I feel it)

Actually, no. I have many, many faults, but this isn't one of them. I don't slag off the books of successful authors, I just envy their dosh.

5. have you ever written a negative review and then immediately felt bad about it and gone back and changed it? And- as related question- have you ever given a book a break (and an extra star) because you feel bad for the author?

Yes to the first; no to the second.

1. I'm actually terrified of reading and reviewing books of people I actually or sort of know. If I do read your book, you'll probably never know. I might leave a rating. But chicken out of an actual review.

2. I tend to write long reviews for books I love and hate. Books that fall in the middle not so much. Also if I write it right after I finish reading it tends to be longer.

3. Maybe. I don't doubt my feelings. But sometimes I'm disappointed that I didn't "get" it too. If I feel I read it in a off time sometimes I'll give popular books one more try. And a few times its actually turned out that I will like them more when I'm in the mood. But I never let popularity change my opinion, or color it.

4. No. Not ever. It won't persuade me to go easy on it either though.

5. Once to the first. But it's because the book in my virtual library here was switched out for a war book I'd never read and the review was kept the same. Weird glitch. I'm never ever angry mean though. I try to put some humor, Don Rickles humor maybe, into it. So I never feel that I'm THAT mean. You know? And I'm never rude to people who like the book. Or the author themselves. Just very clear on what I didn't like on it. Lol. Sometimes very clear. But those are fun to write. To the second part of the question. No. I never feel bad for the author. But I have felt the guilt of reading a friend's favorite book and felt bad enough to up the rating one point.

1. What if you want to give a negative review but also want to encourage the author (because- say- they are your Goodreads friend)?

I'm always honest with a review, it's their own choice on how to look at my review. Not everyone is going to like your book, and unless it's a common complaint then you shouldn't worry about a couple negative reviews. Even talking with my sisters about books, there are ones they loved and I hated, like The Lovely Bones. I found it boring and depressing, they loved the wording and long descriptions and found it beautiful. To each their own...

2. Do you leave really long reviews for the books you hate, or really short ones.

Usually the books I feel extreme about get the longest reviews, the ones I liked but didn't love tend to only get a small paragraph. Honestly, sometimes it's just my mood also.

3. Do you ever feel like you missed something when everyone else gives a book 4 or 5 stars and you just have no interest in it?

Nope, I just consider it a difference of opinion and perfectly normal. Something resonated with them, and didn't with me.

4. Do you ever have the urge to bash a book only because it's popular? (I get that urge sometimes, usually I resist, but I feel it)

No, I feel that a lot of people do this though. For instance when an adult reads a YA book that's outside their normal genre because it's popular with teenage girls, and then they bash it. I feel as if that's a little immature, since if your not part of the target audience, and you know your not going to like some supernatural sparkly vampire book, then just don't read it in the first place. I find it very unfair when people set out to read something just so they could complain about it. I personally like these sort of books, not because I find them serious or thought provoking, but because I think they're fun and sweet. There are some really horrible ones, but if your comparing serious literature to fluffy fun books, then you just need to stop reading them.

5. have you ever written a negative review and then immediately felt bad about it and gone back and changed it? And- as related question- have you ever given a book a break (and an extra star) because you feel bad for the author?

No, I can actually be very cruel if I think the book warrants it. I've actually reviewed where I thought authors shouldn't write because their books were dangerous, or that they wouldn't appeal to their target audience at all. I'm not against pointing out when a book is truly awful, especially grammatically. I try to point out points I don't like in most books, and mention some positives, but sometimes I just don't see a positive.

1. What if you want to give a negative review but also want to encourage the author (because- say- they are your Goodreads friend)?

I usually don't review books I don't like.

Follow-up question: what if you have a friend in real-life, who has written a book, and you have encouraged them and inspired them and they give you a copy of the book to read because of this and while it has some great, solid elements (plot, story, characters, and other various elements with great potential) you discover that it really needs a lot of editing, not just because of numerous typos but also some small segments of dialogue throughout that just don't make any sense (but the book has already been published)? What would you do/say?

Jenelle wrote: "Follow-up question: what if you have a friend in real-life, who has written a book, and you have encouraged them and inspired them and they give you a copy of the book to read because of this and while it has some great, solid elements (plot, story, characters, and other various elements with great potential) you discover that it really needs a lot of editing, not just because of numerous typos but also some small segments of dialogue throughout that just don't make any sense (but the book has already been published)? What would you do/say? "


I think that deserves a face to face conversation. Of course, it will be hard and you should come prepared with citations.

MrsJoseph wrote: I think that deserves a face to face conversation. Of course, it will be hard and you should come prepared with citations.

Yeah... definitely wouldn't do it any other way. I guess I'm just not sure whether to avoid the subject altogether.

I'm not sure you'd be able to avoid the subject. If she gave it to you to read she's definitely going to be expecting a response. She might wait and wait... or she might ask directly... but if you're avoiding the topic it as much as tells her that you didn't like it as telling her. At least if you talk to her you can point out the positives so she doesn't think you just hated it entirely.

± Colleen (of the Crawling Chaos) ± wrote: "I'm not sure you'd be able to avoid the subject. If she gave it to you to read she's definitely going to be expecting a response. She might wait and wait... or she might ask directly... but if yo..."

Exactly. Trust me, she's going to ask. So the question is that are you:

A) Going to be prepared to discuss good & bad points
B) Let her think you did not read it at all
C) Lie to her and tell her it's the best thing since sliced bread. Then avoid all discussion of the book for the rest of your relationship.


No matter what, she's going to ask.

Personally I'm somewhat of an optimist so even when I write negative reviews I try and say why it didn't personally appeal to me and still indicate why it may appeal to others. I've loved books that others have hated and hated books that others have loved. Often it all comes down to personal preference.

eh, really nasty reviews have their place. go flip through some one- or two-star reviews of some book you love to have a hate for (e.g., "50 shades of grey"), i've been mightily entertained by some distinctly not-polite ones.

as far as the original questions go, my reviews are there for 2 purposes in general. first of all, i want to be informative for anyone else considering purchasing or reading this book, so if there was something i particularly loved or hated, that idea's going in there. this is most especially true if the pro or con was something that i know is important to my friends (the people most likely to read my reviews). my second purpose for a review is to remind myself what i loved/hated about any given book, as a heads-up if i'm planning to pick up a sequel or something else by the same author. both of those goals make me tend towards measured honesty rather than friendly rounding up for any book. other people loving/loathing/being meh for anything i felt differently about makes sense to me...after all, we don't all to drive the same car or work the same career, so perhaps i don't speak the exact same emotional/intellectual language as an author that someone else loves way more than i do.

i have read one or two books as review copies that were fairly bad, but the author that gave them to me was just so polite and friendly that i couldn't be honest without potentially being hurtful, so i didn't rate or review those. fortunately, they were not people i knew IRL, so i wasn't faced with the same dilemma you're having, Jenelle. like Mrs.J & Colleen say, they're GOING to ask you about it. i have been in this situation once, where i was beta-reading (on purpose!) for a close friend writing his first novel, and he and i had a looooooong chat over a nice lunch where i dissected that whole effort in a clinical and no-bs approach. he's my friend, and his writing is important to him, so i was neither going to lie nor be bitchy about it, but you better believe i was politely cruel throughout.

I review every book I read. Period. I write the reviews mostly for myself, because I have a terrible memory and I want to be able to remember what I thought about the book. Not all of the reviews are positive. But it's rare I read a book that I hate, though it does happen. I usually try to read up on books I read, but when it's an ARC, or my opinions are different from other readers, well, I figure, opinions vary.

I write my "reviews," though thoughts about the book is probably more accurate, immediately after finishing the book and sometimes I feel like I give the books too many stars, so I have been known to adjust it. A thing that bugs me about gr is that it doesn't allow me to have different opinions on the same book on later rereadings.

Thanks, all, for the advice. You've been very helpful and I appreciate your taking the time to give me some pointers. :)

@Julia - Sometimes what I'll do is write additional thoughts on a re-read, and separate them out by dating the old and new ones. I'll comment if I changed the stars and for what reasons.

An alternate that some have suggested is to add a different edition of the book for re-reads.

For negative reviews, I try to take some of the sting out of it, while being negative enough to give an honest opinion. After all, other people may be making a buy decision based upon what I (and others) say about the story. I see no reason to hype my own ego by cleverly "slamming" an author's hard work. If the spelling, punctuation, etc. needs work, I'll say so. If the pacing is off, say so. If the story sucks (sigh!), it MAY just be me, but I'll still mention that I didn't like it.

If I do like the book, I'll try to dream up some "pull quotes" for the author/publisher to use in their promotional efforts. You know, a few enticing words that look good on a cover or sales blurb.

Example: "The best dystopian story I've read this year." or something similar.

I work for AKW Books (an eBook publisher) and we pride ourselves on only publishing the best. BUT sometimes not everyone agrees. We send out many copies of our books to reviewers, hoping for a good review, BUT ONLY IF IT'S AN HONEST REVIEW, because someone who only says nice things about something they don't like is worthless as a reviewer. We'll take one honest 3-star review over 2 dishonest 5-star ratings, because sooner or later, the dishonest reviewer will be "found out" by the buying public.

So, my advice is to always be honest. You don't have to be mean when doing it, but if you don't like something, say so; and say "why" if you can figure it out.

The fun part is when you find a book that you can praise to the heavens.

Shameless plug:
If you want to review any of our books, by all means drop a line on our contact form with the name of the book and the eBook format you prefer.

Al wrote: "We send out many copies of our books to reviewers, hoping for a good review, BUT ONLY IF IT'S AN HONEST REVIEW, because someone who only says nice things about something they don't like is worthless as a reviewer. We'll take one honest 3-star review over 2 dishonest 5-star ratings, because sooner or later, the dishonest reviewer will be "found out" by the buying public."

I agree with this sentiment completely, and I wish more people would take it to heart. As someone who weighs reviews pretty heavily when choosing what to read (especially for less well known books/authors), there is nothing more off-putting to me than a phony five-star review. I have passed on countless books with "great" reviews because every review opens with a gushing run-on sentence that claims the book is the best thing to hit publishing since the Gutenberg Bible. "The lucid prose encaptivates a resplendent narratory vision, as the author weaves metaphilosophical musings with exsanguinous adventure into a magnum ogre of quixotic wisdom." Somehow I doubt that.

I'm much more likely to actually read a critical opinion of a book I'm considering, and if the reviewer's criticisms don't relate to my own tastes, it may even encourage me to buy the book.

Edit: Just gonna sneak this into the mentioned books, thanks. You'll see why later.

I started writing book reviews only recently and I found I enjoy doing it. I try to cover three basics in my reviews:
I explain what I think the author tried to accomplish with her book. Basicaly my understanding of a book's setup.
Then I elaborate on whether I think she succeeded or not and how so.
Last but not least I talk about how the book made me feel and think - because that's what books are about.

1. What if you want to give a negative review but also want to encourage the author (because- say- they are your Goodreads friend)?
I would elaborate more on where the book succeeded and where it fell short.

2. Do you leave really long reviews for the books you hate, or really short ones.
That very much depends on my emotional involvement with a book. If I cared about the book, it's a long one. If I don't, a short.

3. Do you ever feel like you missed something when everyone else gives a book 4 or 5 stars and you just have no interest in it?
In such a case I try to find out the raving reviewers' perspective, that made them love the book so much. Seeing things in a different light is always a gain.

4. Do you ever have the urge to bash a book only because it's popular? (I get that urge sometimes, usually I resist, but I feel it)
Only if I find it meaningless.

5. have you ever written a negative review and then immediately felt bad about it and gone back and changed it? And- as related question- have you ever given a book a break (and an extra star) because you feel bad for the author?
Not really. If you put your work out there, there's gonna be criticism. It's part of a healthy growing process for an artist. And a dishonest review is worse than no review.
That said, there is a big difference between a honest critique and unconstructive hateful or abusive bashing.

One thing I forgot to say:

Good or bad review, doesn't matter. If you have the time and the talent (able to express your feelings/thoughts in writing) to write reviews, by all means DO review what you read. Authors and publishers want and need reviews. They're the gold that makes our business go and we can't buy honest reviews.

-They help sell books (assuming most of them are positive)
-They provide valuable feedback as to what worked and what didn't
-They help other readers make better buying decisions.

Consider it your gift to the author and the public.

Okay, another point:
Length doesn't matter. Take as little or as much space as you need to get your point(s) across.

Al wrote: "One thing I forgot to say:

Good or bad review, doesn't matter. If you have the time and the talent (able to express your feelings/thoughts in writing) to write reviews, by all means DO review what..."

Personally as a reader of those reviews, I find the long ones too tedious to read, at least the ones that are like short stories themselves. I don't want to know THAT much about the book. A few paragraphs or less is perfect, but your not writing your own story.

Alisha wrote: "I find the long ones too tedious to read ..."

Brevity is the sole of wit. But some people have trouble being brief.

Remember, READERS aren't necessarily authors. It's okay not to be the world's greatest writer when you write up a review (unless you're a professional reviewer). Just share your opinion of the book as best you can.

I find that my desire for a long or short review depends on the reviewers voice and the amount of detail in the review. Quite often I want a long ass spoiler-y review. The shorter the blurb the longer the review I desire. I've spent quite some time digging through reviews looking for specific info.

So, if you are a long review writer, please don't stop! I appreciate you.

1. What if you want to give a negative review but also want to encourage the author (because- say- they are your Goodreads friend)?

My review would be as encouraging as I could make it, pointing out what I liked and didn’t like. If I could, I might try to identify readers that would enjoy it even though I didn’t.

2. Do you leave really long reviews for the books you hate, or really short ones.

I write short reviews normally, but if I wanted to be encouraging, I’d probably write a longer review than normal.

3. Do you ever feel like you missed something when everyone else gives a book 4 or 5 stars and you just have no interest in it?

No. It either clicks with your or it doesn’t.

4. Do you ever have the urge to bash a book only because it's popular? (I get that urge sometimes, usually I resist, but I feel it)

I don’t rush to read whatever is popular right now just because it’s popular, so I don’t do this.

5. have you ever written a negative review and then immediately felt bad about it and gone back and changed it? And- as related question- have you ever given a book a break (and an extra star) because you feel bad for the author?

No.

1. What if you want to give a negative review but also want to encourage the author (because- say- they are your Goodreads friend)?

Then I couch the review that way. "I kind of see what you're going for, but it doesn't quite make it."

2. Do you leave really long reviews for the books you hate, or really short ones.

Depends on the book. And my mood. And the barometric pressure.

3. Do you ever feel like you missed something when everyone else gives a book 4 or 5 stars and you just have no interest in it?

"Missed" is too strong a word. I'm often puzzled by things which are popular. VERY often, in fact. In some cases -- as with Harry Potter -- I can kind of understand why people like it, but in other instances -- such as The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo -- I can only chalk it up to mass insanity.

4. Do you ever have the urge to bash a book only because it's popular? (I get that urge sometimes, usually I resist, but I feel it)

No. I find the urge to hate something because it's popular to be juvenile, and I long ago put away childish things.

5. have you ever written a negative review and then immediately felt bad about it and gone back and changed it? And- as related question- have you ever given a book a break (and an extra star) because you feel bad for the author?

Nope. I feel what I feel and I'm going to say so. If the author can't handle it, that's on them.

I once gave a bad review to one of John Ringo's books, but I found a specific subsection of the story to be quite good. It was a case of "I don't like most of it but I really like this part of it" and the guy had a meltdown. I had the exact same experience with Lawrence Watt-Evans -- whose work I had really enjoyed -- but gave a bad review to one of his books because it was humorous in tone and then he straight up murdered the little girl, and he lost his shit. I believe he used the phrase, "Cross the street to spit in your face."

Not everyone is going to like what you do, and it's a risk you run when you put stuff out there.

Dylan wrote: "I'm much more likely to actually read a critical opinion of a book I'm considering, and if the reviewer's criticisms don't relate to my own tastes, it may even encourage me to buy the book."

I actually read negative reviews before positive ones. On Amazon, for instance, people will 1-star something because the shipping wasn't speedy or a myriad other ridiculous reasons. (One person down-rated a book I thought was really good because of the "generic cover." That's not a valid reason for a bad review.) If they don't have a sound argument as to why something is bad, then I assume that the thing isn't nearly as terrible as they think.

Also, bad reviews are often more entertaining than positive ones.

I guess it's like Tolstoy said about families: "Happy families are alike, while unhappy families are unhappy in their own way." Reviews are like that.

1. What if you want to give a negative review but also want to encourage the author (because- say- they are your Goodreads friend)?

I always try and write negative reviews that indicate why I did not like it but what I can see others may consider as the strengths of the book for them. For instance I may not love reading a book where there is gratuitous violence but someone else may so I try and point out things like that.

2. Do you leave really long reviews for the books you hate, or really short ones?

Normally I vary the lengths of reviews. It depends on what I have to say about a book.

3. Do you ever feel like you missed something when everyone else gives a book 4 or 5 stars and you just have no interest in it?

Not really. Often I just dislike a book that others have loved because the values others see in that book I don't. Take Cormac McCarthy's books for an example.

4. Do you ever have the urge to bash a book only because it's popular? (I get that urge sometimes, usually I resist, but I feel it)

Yes and no. There are some books like 50 Shades or Twilight that I want to bash because they are apparent rubbish and popular. But generally I try and avoid being influenced by hype if possible and read a book on its merits (if there are any).

5. have you ever written a negative review and then immediately felt bad about it and gone back and changed it? And- as related question- have you ever given a book a break (and an extra star) because you feel bad for the author?

Not really. I have edited them but I keep my opinion out there because it is my honest opinion. Plus if an author cannot handle me pointing out that their book is not perfect then they may be slightly deluded about how good it is (to put it nicely).

To add to that my general rule of thumb is to be honest. I don't want to feel that I'm compromising on what I felt about a book just to hide the fact that it felt pretty average. But that's why I also try and say what does or does not work for me. I have loved movies and books that other people trashed in reviews and often I'll read a negative review for a book or film just to see what the reviewer did not like. Often it is entertaining to read a negative review of a book you love and to go: well I don't think you got the point of this book...

Trike wrote: I actually read negative reviews before positive ones.

So do I, at least with Kindle books. There's so much dross out there that I want to be warned asap, so I don't waste my time reading something that isn't worth it. I'm actually much more suspicious of 5-star reviews than 1-star, especially if there are just three or four of them and nothing else. The likeliest explanation is that the author's friends have written the reviews in exchange for a pint, or more likely for a 5-star review of their own book.

I always read the negative reviews first for anything I buy. If there are no negative reviews...I'm usually suspicious.

Michelle wrote: "eh, really nasty reviews have their place. ...

i have read one or two books as review copies that were fairly bad, but the author that gave them to me was just so polite and friendly that i couldn't be honest without potentially being hurtful, so i didn't rate or review those. fortunately, they were not people i knew IRL, so i wasn't faced with the same dilemma you're having, Jenelle. like Mrs.J & Colleen say, they're GOING to ask you about it. i have been in this situation once, where i was beta-reading (on purpose!) for a close friend writing his first novel, and he and i had a looooooong chat over a nice lunch where i dissected that whole effort in a clinical and no-bs approach. he's my friend, and his writing is important to him, so i was neither going to lie nor be bitchy about it, but you better believe i was politely cruel throughout."

I'm coming to this thread late and will answer as a reader in a sec but let me reply to this as an Author who has, actually, gotten some scathing reviews.

First let me say I break what I've been told is a major rule: I always always always reply to my reviews (assuming I notice them, which I usually do because I'm watching like a hawk, being the neurotic new author I am LOL) I was brought up to believe in the words "please" and "thank you." When do I say it? If someone takes the time out of their LIFE to

(a) read my book (and I'm prolific so any book I write is not short and takes a significant amount of time to read, more than one sitting, guaranteed) and/or

(b) compose some remarks about how it did or did not resonate with them--and especially if they tell me specifics about what they did not like

I'm sure as sugar gonna say thank you for spending time and effort. No one has to do that. Whether or not they enjoyed the time they spent is irrelevant IMO. They're never getting that time back. They GAVE it to me by SPENDING it on my book. And that's just time. Not even talking about paying MONEY for a book!

In addition if they explain in a review why they did not enjoy my book, I'll actually apologize. Because I'm a firm believer that people are good unless or until they prove themselves otherwise by being mean, malicious or dishonest, I assume they went into my book with positive expectations of enjoyment. If my work did not give them the enjoyment they expected, then I let them down. I cannot give them their time back. All I can do is thank them for spending it and apologize for not delivering what they wanted.

I do that. Always. I am consistently told not to do it by others. I think doing it forces me to actually THINK about appreciating (as in being cognizant of) the time commitment they made as well as their reader's perspective. It gets me to stop being so full of myself I cannot see their side of the situation. I wouldn't go so far as to say it keeps me "real" but close :)

Okay, now on the second issue, that of scathing reviews, and still speaking as an Author here, not a reader (which I'll reply as in a moment) I think there's nothing to be done about it. I would like to report bullies to the Goodreads admins but they'll have to actually say something abusive. If they do, I'll report them in a heartbeat. This is a great site. No one has to get nasty to keep it a great site. People only have to be fair, honest and considerate. If a bully becomes abusive, they are ruining the community for everyone so I do my part and report them.

Given all that, I'm not sure I quite agree with the decision to post no review at all rather than saying bad things. If you can be objective, separate the person from the problem, I'm actually of the opinion that a bad review (not a scathing or mean or sarcastic one that makes fun of the book's flaws) is really helpful--to both the Author and the future readers who see it. Especially future readers (as MrsJ notes, she looks for "bad reviews" first).

I definitely understand (as Jonathan can attest) the reader who wants to support the author while honestly reviewing a book they did not find to their taste. Jonathan recently wrote me a 3-star review that I thought was marvelous. I haven't really discussed his review with him though it came up in a peripheral way recently discussing other people's reviews. I deliberately avoided telling Jonathan what I thought of his review. Look out, Jonathan, here it comes! :)

A few of my Facebook friends and even my roommate said to me in a flurry after his review showed up "OMG how could he say that? What a jerk!" I'm standing by my opinion. Jonthan wrote an amazingly GOOD review, not a thing wrong with it. In fact, I love it. I guess my friends (and roommate) think if a person doesn't rave and fawn over a book in a review, it's not a good review. I totally disagree.

I think what makes a review good is whether or not it is informative of the book experience the reader had. Both the Author and future readers want to know what the reader behind the review experienced while reading the book. The Author wants to know if the book did/accomplished what they set out to do to their readers. The future/potential readers want to know if the experience is one they want to share.

As a reader, myself, I think a review should tell me the kinds of things in Jonathan's review of my book (Conditioned Response). Hah! I think Jonathan DEFINITELY delivered opinions but he did so for others, not merely his own edification. That's the secret to a good review. Writing a piece OTHERS can benefit from, not merely to get off on the power trip of talking about others who cannot do anything about it. Jonathan's review's gotten 8 likes, too, so I'm not the only one who thinks it's well done :) (this is all coming as a little surprise, eh, Jonathan? :-) hee hee, given our recent private email conversation, I hope it's not too much of a surprise.

Just a side note, Jonathan invited me to offer my book as a Secondary Group Read to a group he moderates and we've chatted a bit since become Goodreads-friendly. I don't think ANY of that comes out in his review. Nor should it.

I think the kind of review he wrote is just exactly how a "bad" review should be in terms of presenting an UNBIASED and OBJECTIVE opinion. Jonathan even went so far as to note who would like it and for what reasons! Now, Jonathan didn't "hate" my book. I did have a couple of people who did say they hated it. I won't say they wrote particularly well-done reviews (they did not IMO) and there has already been more than one of them (book's only been out just over 3 months!) but don't I think they should have been allowed to write those bad reviews? Absolutely they should! If there is not freedom for all, there is freedom for none. If I cannot take the bad, I do not earn the good.

And NO book is "for" everyone. Gawwwwd, the primary read for the group during the month my book was secondary read has THOUSANDS of great reviews. I couldn't get through it. I tried. Really tried, in an effort to keep myself from getting too chatty on my own book's thread :) It was awwwwful IMO. I didn't rate it, didn't review it. I didn't shelve it on a "did not finish" or "could not finish" or "not in this lifetime" shelf. I think THOSE are more rude than scathing reviews!! Creating a rude name for a shelf and shelving a book there that you didn't like is catty and backstabbing and malicious. It's going to publicly humiliate the Author -- and there is definitely NO RECOURSE for the Author. We have to just take that and pretend it doesn't hurt. It does hurt. We're just people; in fact, we're sensitive people who write with great depth of feeling and bare our souls in our work. That's why you read our words, for the feelings we can (hopefully) evoke in you. To turn around and get nasty afterwards...well, that person will still get a thank you out of me, but I won't think they deserve it. I'll do it because that's how I was raised. I'll wonder how THEY were raised.

Could we all maybe rate and review books according to good manners? Honesty, good or bad, doesn't HAVE to be rude, you know?

-Friday
@phoenicianbooks

Jonathan wrote: "3. Do you ever feel like you missed something when everyone else gives a book 4 or 5 stars and you just have no interest in it?

Not really. Often I just dislike a book that others have loved because the values others see in that book I don't. Take Cormac McCarthy's books for an example."

Must I? Must I really take Cormac McCarthy's books? Because honestly, I hate them :-) Not quite as much as I am utterly bored by Clarke's post-1965 work or as much as Dickens will absolutely put me to sleep but close. I'd rather not take Cormac McCarthy no matter HOW MANY times he's named a Best Seller. Thank you, anyway ;-)

Scott wrote: "I will never buy anything that the author themselves has rated five stars. "

And I'm of the school of thought that say if an Author cannot rate their own book 5 stars, how can they expect anyone else to do so? I'm not alone in this either, I should note. Goodreads Author guidelines actually address this specific issue and note it is customary but must never ever be done in a deceptive manner--that is, the Author should make it clear they are rating their own book, not try to pretend to be some disinterested party.

If an Author doesn't rate their own book, I wonder why not (or if they are really that inexperienced in the world of publishing.)

-Friday
@phoenicianbooks

Personally, I don't think author's should rate or review their own books - I find it tacky, even if it's a "humorous" review about how "Well, I ought to love it, I wrote it!"

That said, if an author does rate their own book, I'm not going to automatically hold it against them if they rate it, say, 4 or 3 stars. If anything, this would indicate to me that the author might be aware, on some level, of their limitations. Or they might reserve 5-stars for classics or out-of-this-world books.

I guess part of it is that I was always raised hearing the idiom that artists are their own worst critics, and I'm kind of gobsmacked when I'm confronted with the opposite issue of authors being their own best cheerleaders.

I mean, I used to write poetry and I knew that not every one was a masterpiece. I had my favorites, of course - ones I was really proud of - and I also had others that I knew weren't quite up to snuff. The fact that a lot of authors seem incapable of being remotely objective about themselves just baffles me, to be honest.

Marjorie wrote: "I didn't rate it, didn't review it. I didn't shelve it on a "did not finish" or "could not finish" or "not in this lifetime" shelf. I think THOSE are more rude than scathing reviews!! Creating a rude name for a shelf and shelving a book there that you didn't like is catty and backstabbing and malicious. It's going to publicly humiliate the Author -- and there is definitely NO RECOURSE for the Author. We have to just take that and pretend it doesn't hurt. It does hurt. We're just people; in fact, we're sensitive people who write with great depth of feeling and bare our souls in our work. That's why you read our words, for the feelings we can (hopefully) evoke in you. To turn around and get nasty afterwards...well, that person will still get a thank you out of me, but I won't think they deserve it. I'll do it because that's how I was raised. I'll wonder how THEY were raised."


I agree with a lot of your points. I'm not big on starting conversations with authors about their products, but I can appreciate a nice note.

What I do disagree with is the exception that you take to shelves. Why should it matter to you what the book is shelved as? It does not affect your book's rating whatsoever. It is a note to the reviewer from the reviewer. It has nothing to do with "publicly humiliate the Author" or "Creating a rude name for a shelf and shelving a book there that you didn't like is catty and backstabbing and malicious."

How is that backstabbing?? I paid my money, we are not in a contract nor are we in a relationship.

What a lot of authors have forgotten is that a Goodreads account allows an author to look inside the mind of the reader. I look at it as an author coming into my house, going into my library and then complaining about how I have my books and shelves organized!

I find that the author's desire to control the actions of the reader (by suggesting what is and is not an ‘appropriate review’ and/or shelf name) has slowly started to descend into a power struggle. One in which one of the parties' voice must be stifled to make the other party happy.

Do you have any clue how many books I own?? I own so many that I often buy multiple copies if I don't keep my records in order. Goodreads isn't my first attempt to create a library log, I've done this for years. So if I want to shelve a book “did not finish” I will do so. For my own FYI so I don’t pick up this book again. Sometimes, it’s really not about you.

I had missed the part in Marjorie's post about the shelf names. I agree with MrsJ on this one. I have an "abandoned" shelf, and I don't see this as being catty or malicious in the least. It was my way of dealing with the fact that I might not want to rate a book I didn't finish, and I don't like unrated books on my read shelf, and I had to do something with it.

And I don't have a problem with other shelf-names, either, even if it's "will never read" or "badly-behaving-author". As MrsJ said, many people use goodreads as a cataloging resource, and I have every right to have a system to remind myself of books I've considered and decided I don't want to read, and also of authors that I might not want to read because I don't wish to give them money and support their bad behavior.

As far as being rude versus not...

This goes back into the whole subjectivity issue and the fact that people should be able to review things - or catalogue things - as they see fit. Personally, I find it rude that someone should see fit to dictate to me how I should or should not express myself - within the confines of following goodreads' ToS, of course.

I once gave a bad review to one of John Ringo's books, but I found a specific subsection of the story to be quite good. It was a case of "I don't like most of it but I really like this part of it" and the guy had a meltdown. I had the exact same experience with Lawrence Watt-Evans -- whose work I had really enjoyed -- but gave a bad review to one of his books because it was humorous in tone and then he straight up murdered the little girl, and he lost his shit. I believe he used the phrase, "Cross the street to spit in your face."..."

Wow- Trike- now I might have to look up those reviews!

MrsJoseph wrote: "What a lot of authors have forgotten is that a Goodreads account allows an author to look inside the mind of the reader. I look at it as an author coming into my house, going into my library and then complaining about how I have my books and shelves organized!"


± Colleen (of the Crawling Chaos) ± wrote: "This goes back into the whole subjectivity issue and the fact that people should be able to review things - or catalogue things - as they see fit. Personally, I find it rude that someone should see fit to dictate to me how I should or should not express myself - within the confines of following goodreads' ToS, of course."


This x 1,000,000.

If authors are going to obsess over their book pages, they need to grow a thicker skin and stop taking shelvings so personally.

Riona wrote: "This x 1,000,000.

If authors are going to obsess over their book pages, they need to grow a thicker skin and stop taking shelvings so personally."

And also be reminded that they're business entities. I should be free to say a certain author is homophobic as I can with Chick-Fil-A, or misogynistic as I can with Wal-Mart.

Personal attacks? Bullshit. They're customer complaints. Act professionally and deal with it.