Rothfussians discussion

I don't know why Kvothe being gay would be a WTF factor...

I agree it wouldn't edgy or groundbreaking, but neither is Kvothe being with a chick. People are gay, People are straight, whatever. It would be an acceptable explanation for why Bast's acts as he does and sticks around when he is clearly bored and unhappy with the situation.
Kvothe could easily be bisexual or not mind open relationships, it wouldn't even be out of character and since it hasn't been addressed in the last two novels it would hardly be considered a prominent point in the story. It would just be a characteristic.

The only reason I don't believe they have an exclusive relationship, if they have one at all, is it is suggested Bast sleeps with the wives of Newarre residents and may have even fathered one of the Bently children.

"It would be an acceptable explanation for why Bast's acts as he does and sticks around when he is clearly bored and unhappy with the situation."

Would Bast's actions be unacceptable if he and Kvothe were straight? That seems to be what you're implying and is exactly what I am talking about. Two men can care about each other without being gay. YET, whenever two men care about each other the topic of their sexuality seemingly must be brought up. I'm not a big fan of the meme.

I think when I quite directly said I'm not saying they can't be just friends either though. in post #105 that should have removed the entire thought of such an implication.
My implication was that outside of just being close friends with a sense of loyalty to eachother, a romantic relationship would be another acceptable reason for Bast's deep ties with Kote.

You are the one that seems to be implying that it would be unacceptable if he were homo or bisexual by calling it a WTF moment and a giant distraction when it really wouldn't even be all that out of character.

I didn't bring up the topic, I just addressed the idea that it isn't impossible or ridiculous if someone wants to theorize about that. I really couldn't give two shits if Kvothe (or anyone else for that matter) is gay or straight, it would have next to zero impact on the story for me. It's like when Rowling announced Dumbledore was gay. Sure it gave a little insight to his character, but it didn't change or impact the overall story at all.

You are the one that seems to be implying that it would be unacceptable if he were homo or bisexual by calling it a WTF moment and a giant distraction when it really wouldn't even be all that out of character.


First of all, that's very close to calling me homophobic. Nothing I've said in any way, shape, or form can really be called that.

Second, Dumbledore being gay has little in common with this story. We weren't led all along into believing that Dumbledore was gay or straight (unlike this story, in which we are treated to several scenes of Kvothe being unequivocally straight.) So, and I thought this was obvious, because we have obviously been led to believe that Kvothe is enthusiastically straight, suddenly revealing that he has a gay relationship with Bast would indeed be a "WTF" moment. Because it would literally come out of nowhere. I don't think anything in the text thus far supports that PR is going to unload a surprise in the 3rd book that isn't at least hinted in the first two books. (I don't consider Kvothe having male friends to be a hint.) Thus, I stand by what I said.

Success!

The reason he sicked the solders on him is because he thought it would snap Kvothe out of it and he would kick their asses. But when they beat him up bast was all, "AW HEELLLLL NO!" (excuse my sillyness) and so he killed them.

Along the lines of bast trying to snap him out of it, i think he lead the skin dancer (or what ever it was) to the waystone to do the same thing as the soilders. except, when the Skin Dancer got there, there was still a bunch of civilians hanging about. That why he immediately knew what it was and tried to get Kvothe's attention. And THATS why he was so sad about Shep, because it was HIS FAULT.
Thoughts?

it is a given he led the two thugs to the inn. Bast pretty much admits it freely. I'm also sure Kvothe knows what Bast is up to. However I can't see Bast luring the skin changer there. But if he did I can't see him being terribly upset by Sheps death. I don't think the Fae think of these thing like one would think we do. I like to think of it as a "trained" bear. Yeah, the bear will play with you. push the ball back and forth... awe wasn't that cute. Then it gets hungry. Really hungry. Shit son, I eat my own kids in the wild, that ball game was fun but I need a snack. right or wrong feelings don't really enter into it.

Maybe Bast was sent by Felurian to bring Kvothe back to her. And she doesn't want a broken kvothe so it is Bast's job to "make him remember he's more than some innkeeper baking pies"

I have played with that idea a bit myself. I like it because it fits the narrative... in my mind anyway, but there isn't really anything in the books supporting it that I know of. More of an intuitive leap...

Actually I think I contributed a whole host of plotlines to his interactions with Felurian.

Servius Heiner wrote: "I have played with that idea a bit myself. I like it because it fits the narrative... in my mind anyway, but there isn't really anything in the books supporting it that I know of. More of an intuit..."

I have been reading NOTW again and in the beginning when kvuthe gets cut up by the scrael Bast sneaks into his room while kovthe is sleeping and it says "Then Bast drew a chair alongside the bed and sat, watching his master, listening to him breathe." I think now maybe bast is indebted to kvothe. "Master" says a lot about their relationship.

I wouldn't take that Master thing too far into the idea of slavery or debt owed, Kvothe calls his teachers Master at the University. It may just be another way of wording the fact that Kote's primary responsibility to Bast is that of a teacher.

I think the only thing that makes me think Kvothe and Bast aren't lovers is that Pat as a writer wouldn't be inclined to write them that way. There's nothing set in stone that tells me he wouldn't but I get a strong vibe of that. Stanchion and Deoch were a minor point about Kvothe not knowing the way of mature things. But for something as a major plot point? I think it would be a pretty large plot point to throw in. As a reader it would leave me thinking 'So what?' and just plain wouldn't explain a lot of things so I think it's doubtful.

I think the simplest explanation that 'reshi' means teacher but maybe that's what I always translate it as in my head. And Bast has been getting a curriculum about books and things. I wonder what is on that curriculum, what would you teach a fantastical alien race about? Mundane things...

Or naming...

Okay so after reading various comments and doing some thinking, my theory is this:
(Bear with me because we do not have many facts about Bast and I'm not one to go too far out on a weak limb)

-Bast does care for Kvothe. This much is clear.
-Bast knows that Kvothe is waiting to die. Or rather that KOTE is waiting to die, and that Kvothe has resigned himself to becoming Kote until that time.
-Bast is actively trying to sabotage this plan out of selfish concern for his companion. A controlled fire, if you will. Events that he deems Kvothe can easily gain the upper hand in, but also things that can be stop by Bast's own efforts should they spin out of control. He is trying to FORCE him from his complacency but covertly so he does not lose Kvothe's favor.
-I believe Kvothe is somewhat aware of these ploys and is doing his best no to blow his cover. Hence why he didn't deal with the Soldiers with his true skill. No matter what talents are lost to him, he was able to restrain Bast himself when he meant to kill Chronicler for binding him with iron. And i believe when TDoS is released, we'll find in the beginning chapters that Bast has murdered the same soldiers. By transitive property, this means Kvothe could have done the same.
-But being that Bast has not been around Kvothe for most of his life, nor heard his story, i think that what bast does not know is that Kvothe has had his talents STOLEN. Trapped in fact. Through the same magics that bound Lanre's own name to be changed. I believe he killed the Maer, in search of the chandrian, leading him back to Lady Lackless. Probably through no fault of his own. And after that, he was able to open the chest that she possessed, but at a great cost. I believe it trapped his sleeping mind, where most of his talents lay including his gift with naming and his innate musical ability and that now even simple sygaldry is not impossible, but too difficult to do on a whim. Hence why he attempted to light the skin-walker on fire with such.
-And while i don't believe Bast knows why Kvothe is now incapable of these things, its obvious he knows that he IS incapable of these things, which is why he tells Chronicler not to ask about it.
-I believe Bast once Kvothe to return to his old self, so that he may save himself and undo whatever has been done to him.
-I also believe that Kvothe is depressed, probably because of Denna's death (or betrayal) and no longer cares for such things with the exception of brief moments (like when he tried open the chest again in TWMF) and has deemed such a task impossible.
-I believe that because of this he's given up his pursuit of the Chandrian after many blows exchanged and that the doors of stone is a reference to him entering the Fae world, which probably leads to some kind of Chaos involving the Fae and the Chandrian, and this is where Bast enters his life knowing nothing of WHY kvothe hunts the chandrian as we see revealed in TNOTW.
-Ultimately, these things don't say much about Bast and definitely nothing Concrete. But my biggest guess as to WHY he wants Kvothe to return to his former self is to change his destiny and to triumph over their mutual enemies together or learning secrets of magic on Kvothe possesses (or possessed at one time). That being said, he does not seem to be above using people to his own ends and we may come to find that he himself betrays Kvothe or vice versa at the most opportune moment, leading to the inevitable tragedy foreshadowed by the Cthaeth.

FEEDBACK MORE THAN WELCOME

Following up on my last theory, does anyone think that if Denna IS currently dead that Kvothe losing himself and changing his name would be very similar to Lanre's story of how he became Haliax???

I think Bast has a true heart. If you read the lighting tree you would see that, while you read it you feel like bast is being really tricky and maybe not "good" but at the end all he accomplishes is for the better for all the people involved.
I think that the fun thing about Bast is that, he doesn't mind about how to reach some goal, but the goal itself.

So, the thing "is Bast good or evil" is a lot mor complicated than this. Is someone good if he meant good but doing some questionable stuff as to get there?

I am probably completely wrong but I always thought that Bast is of Chandrian linage and passes himself off as a student to trick Kvothe and also to learn as much as possible about Kvothe and his family to hit him hardest when the time comes....