Rothfussians discussion

Bast seems to be one of the most mysterious character in the book. I thought that he just wanted to learn from Kvothe but after reading NOTW again I'm not so sure.

It seems obvious that he wants Kvothe to return to his former self... but why?

What is Bast's deal? Is he trapped in the mortal world and needs Kvothe to get him back? Does he really want to learn from Kvothe? Is he good or is he evil?

Bast seems to me, to be a man on a mission; that mission being to return Kvothe to the world by any means necessary. I'm not going to say that you are unable to speculate, but there just isn't enough information to make a conclusive statement beyond this ;<

Bast could be either or both... the fae don't seem to deal in good and evil, just by thier nature.

I think Bast is a very key character that we don't know much about yet. He seems extremely dangerous when he threatens Chronicler and will do anything it takes to get the real Kvothe back. Very odd indeed

My personal theory (which I mostly based on playing D&D in Forgotten Realms) is that Bast wants to "put Kvothe right" for his own benefit. (Since that is pretty much all Fae worry much about)

Here is why -

In NOTW Abenthy talks about how Kvothe could have a royal appointment before he is 25. I think Bast is that Royal Appointment - mostly because that part just seemed kinda random otherwise. My guess is that Kvothe went to the Fae and became Bast's mentor in the practice of the arcane, not a low title being teacher to a prince. Bast has a desire to go to the univerisity - presumedly that is, I dont see why he would spend time learning this crap otherwise. So Kvothe is to Bast what Abenthy was to Kvothe. Except - something happens (said something is undeterminable) and then Kvothe kills some king and is presumed dead. Even if he wasnt dead - he'd be kicked out of the arcanum (also presumedly) since I dont think murder is exactly "becoming" of any arcanist. At least - not murdering people that matter. So - now Bast has basically wasted his time unless he can put Kvothe's name back to good. (I have bad english today) And he's wasted his time because....he cant get into the arcanum without a letter from his former master - he cant take a letter from his former master because 1. he's supposed to be dead and 2. they wouldnt want him for a student since Kvothe is bad news in the eyes of the majority. Also another reason Bast and Kvothe are lax on the studies now a day.


Thats a guess at least.

Another guess I have is that he's Felurian's hired hand and Bast is worried Felurian will be pissed if Kvothe is all weak hearted when he takes him back to fae.

That's quite the theory! The Royal Appointment idea is pretty solid. But I can't see why a 150 yr old Faen character would go through all this boredom and submission just to go to the university to learn some trades from the other Masters.

My theory is that for some reason Bast is trapped. My rationale for this is that in NOTW he complains that he's “ been gone too long,”. I'm thinking that he means being away from the Fae. At first I assumed this meant there was something physically barring him from returning (like the path being blocked or something), but your theory got me thinking.

I'm thinking that Kvothe is accused of killing some Faen king and possibly Bast is on the run/ in hiding because he was thought to be involved somehow. It's a stretch but I want it to be true :). Could be an epic 3rd book if it is

Surely Kvothe killed a mortal king, hence the war that he seems to have fomented? Not sure the Faen deal in kings as such, they seem a bit too independent for that kind of thing.

I just assume that Bast has been won over by Kvothe's charm during his tuition, and that his presence was originally due to some entanglement arising from Kvothe's hunt for the Chandrian amongst the Faen.

I think Rondel's theory definitely has some merit. I'm not sure if there are kings in the Fae but there are courts and leaders. I'm pretty sure Felurian taught Kvothe all about the Faen society. I can't imagine why a faen creature would want to learn from a mortal either. Perhaps to learn naming?

The fae do not have magic. I think a lot of people dont realize this.

The Fae have what is called "spell like abilities" thats why Kvothe cant learn to do what Felurian does. (This is also something you probably wouldnt know without playing TableTops)

Fae are innately magic - they are born able to do whatever magic they can do - they do not learn how to do it they just do it. They're magical beings. The difference in RPG's is that you dont have to obey the same magical point rules and shit like that as characters that are of non-magical races, but you would have to deal with a level modifier....okay, I'm getting off track, that doesnt really matter.

So potentially Bast could be more powerful than a lot of fae by learning to use the "magic" that the university has to offer, as these magics arent innate abilities. Bascially - in RPG speak, Bast would be a fae of high enough level to class out and start taking levels in something else besides race levels.

In English - Bast would be more powerful than other fae because he would have abilities beyond the normal. Most fae would probably consider it below them to learn magics from Humans - but Bast is very cunning and I could see him taking a different view. (Which would be the correct view - because thats just how the game works LOL)

Pat has actually stayed pretty true to the format of tabletops - he's actually hoping to create his own campaign setting (stoked for that) with the Hero system, which I havent played but I cant imagine him straying to far from the agreed upon lore. I mean - he was just a geek before he was an author and WOTC has pretty much written the geek bible...you dont just change the flippin bible man...

No one ever said he was evil.

Having motives that benefit yourself isnt evil.

It's just creatures of Fae arent really like what you describe. They dont pay it forward or sit around thinking up something nice to do for someone.

In most instances...I mean...I'm not saying its impossible, I'm reading R.A. Salvatore right now...so I have an open mind to the subject of Bast giving up his heritage

However - Bast has shown multiple times through his interactions with Chronicler its not just some nice deed he is doing, otherwise, threats wouldnt really be necessary. Sicking bandits on Kvothe wouldnt be necessary. Sneaking about, wouldnt be necessary. Spreading scant rumors to lure people in and catch Kvothe wouldnt be necessary. Pausing to see what Kvothe would do while fighting the skin walker - wouldnt be necessary.

That shit ain't nice.

I'm definitely on the side of Bast having some ulterior motive. I agree he does seem to care about Kvothe/Kote but at the same time, he's testing him, and only sorry when the test ends badly. Which is sort of like only being sorry after you were caught.

A lot less meaningful.

I'm under the impression this story telling session was really more for Kvothe/Kote than for Bast. Bast didnt know who would show up when he started spreading rumors, Chronicler just happened to be who it was. Not really a plan or anything. Bast would have taken anyone, Friend or Foe.

But Bast doesn’t operate by being nice. He doesn’t do things the way people do because he isn’t a person.

I know...thats what I was basically saying. He's a Fae not a human. Fae mostly trick and tease mortals. Its not about being spoiled, its about them generally seeing themselves as better than mortals.

But I'm pretty sure he knows what killing is. He felt bad Shep died and that seemed to have value to him.

it doesn’t seem to me as rainbows-and-butterflies as you appear to be seeing it.

hmm...interesting concept of rainbows and butterflies you have.

You are the one that suggested

maybe he just wants to bring back a legend and bring happiness to a man who seems utterly defeated?

in other words - thinking of something nice to do....

I don’t think his threats are showing that he’s doing something for a reason; just that he doesn’t really care what he has to do to get what he wants

If he wants something and threatens people to get it...obviously whatever he wants is the reason. Are you just trying to argue? You have to have a reason to make threats...the reason is he wants something...that something is the whole point of this thread...to make conjecture as what that something is. Maybe his motives arent as masked as I suggested, but its just a theory, which includes speculation. Obviously he has a freakin' reason for doing what he does! Everyone has a reason they do things...thats why they do them.

I also don’t think he was testing him by setting the soldiers on him (that’s what you’re referring to?), he was trying to reawaken Kvothe by exposing him to pressure, or...something. A danger situation would reawaken that part of him?

Okay so you think it was a test.

test/test/Noun: 1.A procedure intended to establish the quality, performance, or reliability of something, esp. before it is taken into widespread use.

or maybe more like a wake up call?

wake up call:Web definitions: a warning to take action concerning something that was overlooked or neglected



Lastly - I could see the novels being about getting Kvothe to snap out of it, I think general consensus is that is bound to happen by the end. The whole point of this thread though is WHY does Bast care?

I think it runs a little deeper than he likes Kvothe better than Kote its a funner to run around with him that way.

But maybe not...that could be right. It's all conjecture.

Okay, I missed the Shep part.

Its at the end of NOTW that Shep dies. It's what leads to everyone writing their wills with Chronicler basically.

Bast seemed, to me at least, to feel generally bad because he didnt jump right into battle with the thing and thats what led to Shep getting hurt and killed. I would say he cared more about Shep's death because Shep was a generally harmless and good person. Where as the guys he hired to fight Kvothe were really more like mercenaries and that's a business of risk. Also a business of people who arent exactly Harmless and Good. Not to mention Bast was probably upset his master was hurt and its easier to blame someone else vs. blaming yourself.

, he *does* seem to care about “Reshi.” One might even say that he would do what his Reshi asked. He would try to protect Reshi if he could.

I think he does care about Kvothe, at least he puts on a good show of it. But I dont really agree that he would do as Kvothe asked or necessarily try and protect him. I mean - he is the reason Kvothe got his ass kicked, and he's pretty much the entire reason Chronicler is there, the end result of which will be Kvothe no longer being safe, as he will be known to be alive. Not to mention he goes against his wishes plenty of times by not studying and not being friendly to Chronicler - which Kvothe was pretty clear, in fact demanded, that he do if he wanted him to continue the story.

By “reason” I think I meant “ulterior motive”

The thesaurus literally says under synonyms for Motive - Reason. So I really just dont get what you are saying. You say, he doesnt have a reason, then give a reason (to get what he wants), but wont conject on the reason.

Then say he doesnt have reasons he has ulterior motives, which means he has a reason. Dont be mad at me, man. See me as negative if you like, but its not that I'm trying to be negative to you, its mostly that what you are trying to say makes no sense to me.

I specifically said I *didn’t* think it was a test--you said that; I thought it *was* a wake-up call

I know you said you didnt think it was a test, I was just making sure you realized what test meant. Not to be an ass, but because some people really dont know this stuff. Hence why I provided a definition. I would consider what Bast did a test, but I could also see it as a possible wake up call. Which I wanted to be clear about so I left another definition. And I honestly wanted to know your opinion on the subject.(which did not include any metaphors)

You dont have to agree with me. I really dont mind, I like when people have diverse theories on this board, I enjoy when I'm proven wrong, I enjoy when things go good and we all get something out of it. But I dont enjoy not understanding things, and I'd love to understand where you are coming from, but I currently do not. If you arent willing to make it clear, thats fine. I can deal, but it's not my fault that you havent articulated your agrument.

Maybe we can start over, and things can be made clearer. I'm for that. I'm not mad - I was never feeling negative, I was only defending my point.

Hey - no apology necessary. It's rough trying to convey your thoughts on the internet.

I was being somewhat defensive - as I was defending my theory by trying to work out points of it. But not defensive in a - there is no way I could be wrong sort of way - I try to poke holes in everyones theories, feel free to do the same to mine...but ya gotta back it up or we will be here all day :)

I think I understand what you are saying now that its all right in front of me and collected and I can see your why you might think that. Things dont always have to be so complicated as my personal theory. Maybe Bast and Kvothe are just friends and Bast wants to see his friend act himself again.

I guess we shall see. Hopefully that is.

All these things Bast is trying to do to awaken Kvothe. You think maybe apart of Kvothe knows what Bast's trying to do, so he fails on purpose?
I mean at the start of the book, he defeats several killer spider demons. And then he gets beaten up at the end of TWMF by 2 humans?
It's obvious something's up.
Kote seems like a nice guy.
but he isn't Kvothe.

I don't have the book in front of me so I can't quote it, but in NotW when Kvothe & Kilvan are talking after the fire/explosion in the fishery, Kilvan says a phrase that includes the word "Kote." He translates it for Kvothe when K says he doesn't know the meaning of Kote as "Expect disaster every 7 years." Kote = disaster? Anyone remember reading anywhere what Kvothe means?

@Ardene - there has been some speculation that Kote means Disaster in (cealdish?) Yes - due to this piece of dialog.

I think its pretty safe to say it most likely does mean that.

However I dont remember anyone really talking about what Kvothe means. Only his many other names.

At the start I think it said that Kvothe thought it meant 'knowledge' or 'to learn'. Something like that.

I couldnt find that in the book - so it would be cool if you knew where to look.

Otherwise, I'm not so sure that is correct. Wish someone had a kindle version right now...

It's when he's doing the introduction after Chronicler first starts scribing his story. Chapter 7 of NotW.

But I was brought up as Kvothe. My father once told me it meant "to know".

Phoebe wrote: "All these things Bast is trying to do to awaken Kvothe. You think maybe apart of Kvothe knows what Bast's trying to do, so he fails on purpose?
I mean at the start of the book, he defeats several ..."

I've thought about that as well. He does defeat several scrael then has trouble fighting the skin dancer in NotW and the two soldiers in WMF. I honestly don't think he was trying to defeat the two soldiers. He was beating them and then he lost. Afterwards Kote says, "I almost forgot who I was." I think he is saying that he almost forgot he was suppose to be an innkeeper, not Kvothe.

As for Bast, I think he is definitely trapped in the mortal world or is exiled for some reason.

Spottedfire wrote: "It seemed simple to me. Bast is Kvothe’s student, and he believes that Kote is sort of, I don’t know, taking over Kvothe and there’s getting to be less and less of Kvothe left. It’s clear from read..."

I agree with your theory...mind you I am only on chapter 25 of this book and it is my first time reading it. I just kind of get the feeling he loves his mentor and wants him to go back to how he used to be and not waste away being an inn keeper. The last line of the first book was something like a man waiting to die referring to kvothe, I think if he stays as he is he will die either an actual death or the death of who he was.

What about what Bast does in ch. 152 from WMF?? I don't want to give away spoilers because Tabbycatz is only on ch. 25, but what is Bast doing meeting up with those people in ch. 152? If you look at the dialog in ch. 152, it is clear that Bast set up the events in which these guys participated. I would quote these lines directly in this message, but they probably include too many spoilers. I don't know if it is fair to discuss on this on this board, since it doesn't have the *Spoilers* notice, but chapter 152 totally threw my perceptions of Bast for a loop. And then the last line of the book! Oh man!!! I don't know how I'm going to survive the suspense until book 3 comes out!!!

I think he set it up in hopes of never seeing them again (trying to be vague here). I think be believed that Kvothe would handle it proper. but, in the end, he did what he didn't think he would have to do

I doubt Bast's intentions are so simple.
He is a fae.

When Kote talks about the Sithe later and says they are fae with Good intentions...Bast literally says that if thinks they have good intentions he obviously doesn't understand them.

I dont know, dont want to spoil to much for Tabby either. But I just can't imagine Bast's character being so easy to determine. Especially considering the complexity of every single other fae we encounter...putting him into a box and saying he just cares for Kvothe and wants him to get better seems like a joke to me.

I am reading as fast as I can to see what you are all talking about :) I am up to chapter 40, Kvothe just met Puppet and is researching the Amir (sp?). He is still at the University and has not left yet. Can't wait to see whats going on with Bast.

Well, you wont see much I'm afraid.

He is one of the vaguest characters in the entire series. (IMO)

I'm guessing there is a reason to that, but I'm not completely sure what it is. After watching the last storyboard (you should watch those if you like Rothfuss in general they're hangouts about writing from Geek & Sundry) I don't think he'd add a character and give them so much flavor without haveing an intent to use them in some fashion. Pat just builds way to much interest around Bast for him to remain the way he is. (also IMO)

(And its Amyr - if you care, you just put a ? so I thought I'd throw it out there, I'm not much for spelling but I knew that one so....)

I agree with Amber. I don't think Bast is there simply to get the real Kvothe back. This became especially clear for me after reading ch. 152. I know that I'm harping on that chapter, but it was the first time that I really saw a darker side of Bast, and I wonder why he would set things up the way he did. I have absolutely no idea what will come of Bast, but like Amber said, why would Rothfuss put this chapter in the book, and especially at the end, unless it was going to lead to something more. I can't even attempt to make a guess as to what it will lead, but I get the feeling that it will completely take me by surprise.

Have you folks read the Kvothe versus Jamie Lannister cage match Pat wrote up for Suvudu awhile ago? It's not exactly canon or anything, but it nudged me into the pro-Bast camp.

Actually I haven't read that. I read the Aslan one (cute) but not the Jamie Lannister one. Since it was before I read ASOIAF.

Link it man! I want to read it now. Jamie is my favorite character in that series so I'd love to read Pat's match against the two. Now that you mention it, those to character seem sorta similar-ish.

@ Stacy, I agree. Though I got that impression pretty much every single time he spoke with Chronicler. He is unneccesarily insane to that poor man.

Yes please share the link!

And the link's broken, of course. It's preserved here. Here's the parent: Suvudu Cage Match 2010: round 4 where you can find the broken links to both Rothfuss's and Martin's take on it. And here's Pat's blog about it.

Here's the text, hidden:
(view spoiler)[
It was midmorning, and the autumn sun was hot as Jaime Lannister opened the door of the Waystone Inn. The place was oddly quiet, and he peered through the door, one hand resting lightly on his sword.
The taproom was empty except for a dark-haired young man lounging behind the bar. “Can I help you?”
Jaime stepped inside. “I’m looking for the owner. We have… business.”
The young man stood up straighter. “He’s stepped out for a moment. You’re Jaime?”
Jaime frowned slightly as he looked the young man over. “I am. And you are?”
“Bast.” The young man said with a grin. “He said I’m to make you comfortable if you showed up early. He shouldn’t be more than an hour or two. Can I get you something to drink?”
Jaime moved to sit at the bar. “I don’t suppose you have any decent wine out here in the ass end of nowhere?”
“What do you mean by decent?” Bast asked.
Jaime waved a hand dismissively. “Why don’t you bring out your best bottle? I’ll tell you if it’s something worth drinking.”
Bast looked offended as he headed down the basement stairs, returning a moment later with a dusty bottle.
“Something off the top shelf, I hope,” Jamie said.
“Something from behind the shelf,” Bast said proudly. “I can’t keep track of what the wines are called in these parts, but I’m guessing when you hide a bottle, it’s the good stuff.”
Bast worked a corkscrew and opened the bottle with a deft flourish. Then he brought out a tall wineglass, poured an inch of deep red wine into it, and held it out with an ingratiating smile.
Jaime made no motion to take it. “You drink half.”
Bast glanced down at the glass, then back up, his smile fading. “It tells you a lot about a man when he says something like that.”
Jaime showed his teeth in a sharp, joyless expression that had the shape of a smile. “It says a lot about you,” he said smugly, “that you aren’t willing to drink it.”
Bast gave a dismissive sniff, picked up the glass, and took a mouthful of the dark wine. Then he raised his eyebrows and made an appreciative noise as he picked up the bottle and eyed the engraving on the neck. “I can see why he hid this one,” Bast said, pouring more into the glass. “That’s just lovely.”
Jaime shrugged. “Ah well,” he said. “You know what they say. Better safe than sore,” he held out his hand.
Bast brought the glass close to his chest, his blue eyes icy. “This is my drink now.” He took another sip of the wine. “Rude guests go thirsty. Drink your own piss for all I care.”
Jaime’s expression went dark. “I’m not here for you,” he said. “But killing you wouldn’t be far out of my way.”
They stared at each other for a while across the bar. After a moment, Bast set the bottle down hard on the bar. “Fine,” he said, nudging it so it slid forward. “I won’t insult you by offering you a glass or anything. I could poison that, too. You’ll just have to drink it right from the bottle…” Bast grinned. “Like an unlettered cretin.”
Jaime picked up the bottle. “Boy,” he said. “If it makes you feel brave to show your teeth to me, go right ahead. But I’ll only tolerate so much.” He took a drink straight from the bottle, paused, and took another slower drink as if to make sure of something. He looked surprised. “Well, that is good, isn’t it?”
Bast nodded and took another sip.
“Did he say when he’ll be back?”
Bast looked down at his feet. “A couple hours,” he said with an odd tone in his voice. “He wasn’t expecting you until noon.”
“Don’t look so glum, boy,” Jaime said. “Look at the bright side. In a couple hours I’ll be on my way and you’ll be the owner of this fine inn.”
Bast looked up and his eyes were anxious. “I don’t suppose I could convince you to call this off?”
Jaime gave a humorless laugh and took another drink. “Good lord, boy. Why on earth would I do that?”
“Human decency?” Bast said.
Something about this struck the golden-haired man as funny, and he erupted into a great belly laugh that lasted for nearly a minute. Eventually he trailed off, wiping the water from his eyes. “You just earned yourself a tip, boy.” He shook his head in disbelief and took another drink.
“It’s just that…” Bast began.
“Look, boy.” Jaime leaned forward onto the bar. “I can tell you’re a talker. You probably learned that from him. I hear he’s got a silver tongue on him. Talked his way right out of the fight with the god-lion.” He gave Bast a serious look, his eyes hard as flint. “But that isn’t going to do him any good here.”
Jamie took another drink from the bottle before continuing. “You see, I’ve done some asking around. Your Kvothe has a bit of a reputation. Clever, quick. Devil with a sword. Strong as a bear. He can call down fire and lightning.” Jaime shook his head. “But I think all that is just stories. And the parts that aren’t just stories, he lost long ago.” He looked around the empty inn. “He wouldn’t be hiding here if he still had a scrap of power to call his own.”
Bast looked dejected, but he didn’t say anything.
“I’ll offer him a chance to surrender.” Jaime said magnanimously. “As thanks for this excellent bottle of wine.” He took one last drink and pushed it away from himself on the bar. “That’s enough of that. Start to turn my head, otherwise.”
“He might surprise you.” Bast said.
“With what?” Jaime said, laughing again. “That sword has dust on it, and his magic’s gone from what I hear. His silver tongue isn’t any good on me. He doesn’t even play music any more. What’s left?”
“I need to show you something,” Bast said. “Come here behind the bar.”
Jaime turned his shoulders, then frowned, looking down at his feet.
“Never mind,” Bast said, starting to walk around the bar. “I’ll come over to you.”
“Why can’t I move my legs?” Jaime said, his voice quiet and incredulous.
“Sethora,” Bast said simply. “It tends to start with the legs. You can probably still move your arms. But be careful or you’ll….” Jaime turned on his stool and toppled messily to the floor. “…Yeah. You’ll do that.”
Jaime writhed a bit, turning onto his side. Moving his arms sluggishly he managed to pull a long knife from his belt and throw it at Bast as came out from behind the bar. But the throw went wild and sunk into one of the thick-timbers of the tables.
Bast approached where the big man lay, stepping gracefully as a dancer. He stayed well out of arm’s reach through the man’s final struggles, waiting until he saw the tall man’s breathing grow stiff and labored.
“It was in the wine,” Bast stepped close and brushed the man’s golden hair out of his eyes. “I can’t believe you managed to drink so much of it. You must have the constitution of an ox.”
“But you…” Jaime’s mouth shaped the words though he lacked the breath to say them.
“You think I wouldn’t drink poison for him?” Bast asked. “Then you don’t know anything about him.”
Bast met the man’s glassy eyes. “You’re right. He’s not what he used to be. He’s lost everything. No magic. No music. No joy. No hope. You know what he has? You know what’s left?” Bast leaned closer, his voice low and vicious. “Me!” He practically spat the word, his eyes were wild. “He has me!”
The young man stood, took a fistful of the tall man’s golden hair, and began to drag his limp body across the floor.
(hide spoiler)]

thank

Well, that was definitely an interesting read.

Gives you another impression of Bast for sure.

Thanks for posting that.

Wow, that was awesome. Although, it didn't seem like Jaime to me :P

Chris wrote: "Wow, that was awesome. Although, it didn't seem like Jaime to me :P"

Pat maintained that he hadn't read ASoIaF, so that, at least, makes sense.

Hello there peeps. Been lurking around here for a couple of weeks and finally thought I'd chime in :) Just found this thread and it ties in nicely with a post I just popped up on Tor (my normal wordy playground). Be nice to hear what you guys think.

A note: It is C&P'd, the refs to others are obv in that thread! Kaz's post was on a seperate point (fae nature) and their quotes were the surrounding qoutes from which I lifted mine.

Ok, so I had a quick catch up on the last thread and an odd thought occured to me reading Kaisoku's post and following comments. (I'm so glad that post was broken up more originally! ::serious underscores wry::)

So:
“Reshi,” he said, his voice as dry as autumn leaves."
-connecting up to the silence

“There’s a lot of things I’ve never told you, Bast,” Kvothe said
flippantly. “That’s why you find the sordid details of my life so
enthralling.”

"His voice was low and sudden, like a throb of distant thunder."
-Thunder, part of K's Name

"Bast made a sharp gesture with one hand, his eyes still hard."
(-An oddity that gesture. Mmm)

“It’s more than you should do, Bast.”
-What is that Bast is supposed to do?

"Bast shook his head slowly, wearing an expression of bemused dismay. “You are an idiot, Reshi.”

Then there was Shalters ob of some feeling K's actions with the fake Ruh were off. Which drew me to compare Basts actions with his hired soldiers.

The there is the putting it about which reflects how we leave K at the end of WMF, the flashes of temper, the showmanship, K's a bit fae round the edges, the power, the grandoise threats, K's test to see if Bast could open the thrice-locked chest, the yearning for K to wake up-to be whole again.

Is Bast what K has lost in becoming Kote? If a blade of Ramson steel wast to break it would leave you with more than one piece. K has lost much of his ability, seemingly, in the frame and yet takes a perfect step.

If Bast is a manifestation of his power, the vigour of his Name and the tempestuous nature that accompanies such...then it would leave the mundanity of his mortal half. Still intelligent, still a storyteller but with much lost. Throughout the narrative we see how such power aids K, but we also see how his personality leads him to mistakes and foolishness. Perhaps he is able to take that perfect step because these parts have been cut away.

Is this why, and how, he is a cut flower?

Now I'm tempted to read through the frame again and see if K becomes the innkeeper (as label rather than Kote, and Kvothe) when Bast is at the forefront. Note in the segment in which Bast is described as thunder K is labeled Kvothe...until Bast/Thunder...then he is the innkeeper.

***

And then there is the time we see K sleep is when Bast sings to him...

Wow, that's an interesting theory and would be really cool.


But, despite that, something within me firmly disagrees with you. Haha, the joy of speculation!

After reading what Thistle posted I started thinking something along those lines as well.

Since the line "What does he have left?" and Bast answers "Me"
(Paraphrase obviously)

But at the same time I don't want to take that as cannon TOO much. I don't think it strays from Bast's character but...well, it was just for fun really.

What leads me to specifically disagree with you though is Bast is over 100 years old, I believe 150...but you might double check that. Also, he has a very specific title in the Fae. This title also includes one peice I think is fairly detrimental to this theory. "Son of Remmen" Kvothe/Kote is obviously the Son of Arliden, something he is inherently proud of throughout the narrative. If he split into two beings, both would still be Arliden's son.
Not to mention, we haven't seen or heard of any sort of magic that could accomplish what you are suggesting.
Also, if Bast were Kvothe's magical half split away from his mortal half, he wouldn't need to study under Kote, which it's pretty clear he is doing this.

Also, if Bast was cut away from Kvothe's personality he would know all of Kvothe's story, which he obviously does not. He would have been a part of Kvothe's conciousness while visiting Ctheah, an occurance Bast literally has no knowledge of. I also don't see why Bast would have the expectations he has of Chronicler if he (Bast) were in fact the thing creating the problem.

Anyway...I see a lot of flaws in that theory is all. I don't know if I got your theory completely correct though, it's kinda jumbly...so maybe clarify...

I think Bast is not a negative character, at least not in what Kvothe is concerned.
I think Bast loves him or cares very deeply and he is trying to get Kvothe up to his former self just because that's how things are supposed to be, like how one tries to heal someone who is sick.
Another reason for Bast to want the old Kvothe back would be that maybe he could solve whatever war/bad things are happening in the world right now (presumably these wars include the Fae too, or they simply threaten the entire world).

How have I not read that? The others I saw at the time...

Bast's history does seem like it should play havoc with the theory. But actually it doesnt...well, not as much as it could.

Son of Remmen. We are not actually sure that Arliden is K's dad, there has been a fair bit of spec around the 'some passing god' comment early on in NotW when K is still with his parents. Plus all the times K is described as fae aound the edges, and the fact that he comes into his power, star and all, in Faen. (Felurians we fear the power we shed in mortal).

The stories and knowledge reflect what K knows. To the extent there are instances where they are thinking the same things. Sometimes there convos can be read as the sort one would have with oneself, during one of these Chornicler talks and startles them.

Basts fascination and desire to know K's story is marked in several places...almost as if he needs that knowledge...that it is something he is missing. It is almost as great as his desire for K to awaken.

I propose that this is his desire to be whole again.

K's almost forgetting. There does seem to be points where their division is almost awknowledged.

And It must be noted that K is teaching him Alchemy...and there's an awful lot of alchemic symbolism, both in general, and between them. (Thistlepong poked me down that road).

Magic. Mmm thats debatable. There ar magic that we have only seen glimpses of.
Glamourie (unlikely as it's a seeming)
Grammerie (poss shaed)
Alchemy (Sim)
Shaping - This seems most likely. Objects: Adem swords. Living creatures: the tree of silver appes in Murella. Possible Faen creatures. Realities: Faen.

Then there is Elodins fear of a person changing their Name.

The waystone and the thrice locked chest seem to contain ther seperation. Note the silences, of wih Bast is a part, are contained in K, in his hands, in the chest, in the Waystone:it is the greatest silence.

I really just don't think that theory is gonna fly :P

As for the "here has been a fair bit of spec around the 'some passing god' comment early on in NotW". One line from Arliden which was clearly a joke doesn't seem like much to go on there.

I seriously doubt that Arliden is not Kvothe's father. It just doesn't really seem to fit the story, plus in all the pages that have been published, something like that is suggested only one time. Seems like it'd have to be foreshadowed through out to really make any sense.

Though I haven't spent time thinking of anything like that through my rereads so maybe there is more suggestions I just never caught.

Since I wasn't completely sure what you were trying to theorize in whole before this post does help though.

So in your theory, you'd say that Bast only got part of the knowledge? Correct? And that is why he wants to or needs to gain some of the knowledge possesed in Kote's story.

The only rebuttle I could think to that, would be that if when they split Bast took part of the knowledge but not all, wouldn't that leave Kote with missing peices of the story as well? To where they would literally have to tell the story together to make it complete?

I do agree Kote is clearly teaching Bast alchemy, though I think it's safe to assume that Kote is probably addressing the same things that Abenthy would have addressed with him before he went to The University. Just because it doesn't say Kote's teaching Bast, THIS, THIS, & THIS doesn't mean he's not. Bast's instruction isn't the focus of the story so mention all the things he's learning is sort of pointless, especially since Rothfuss already has an overly wordy book. He's clearly teaching him more than just alchemy in my opinion. That's why (also IMO) Kote asks Bast's opinion on opening the thrice locked chest. I honestly never thought it was because Kote didn't know how to open it, I have always thought that was just a puzzle Kote was smug about. *shrug*

Though you make an interesting point with the silences and all. I'll have to consider that for a while....

As far as the Magics - I think shaping is probably the best to contain the sort of idea you're posing here. Though I do believe Pat mentioned on his blog not long ago there was a final magic we hadn't been introduced to yet.

Ashley's very good at comparing imagery and word choice and most of the time, looked at that way, her ideas are difficult if not impossible to dismiss entirely. At the same time, it's often just as difficult to shake free of your preconceptions and give them an honest hearing. And, of course, there can be an apparently insurmountable issue that can't be overcome by strict textual analysis.

I like the notion of Bast being a fragment of Kvothe, or even some sort of alchemical union between him and Denna, but I can't make myself believe it.

Technically, it looks like naming/shaping could accomplish this. And alchemy in the books is pretty much just historical alchemy out here, so that could definitely do it.

Well, I have only read the book once, no rereads or anything. My initial thought is that Bast has something more to do with Felurian. I don't believe that he doesn't know her. I believe he does know her. Rather well. That's just my thought. I have nothing to back it up with.

I agree, I do enjoy the notion. It's something that even crossed my own mind but couldn't make fit. So if someone else can, then I'm certainly interested.

Don't take my nay-saying the wrong way. I'm really only offering the argument to help better the theory as much as possible, since it is an interesting one.

Has anyone considered that Pat isn't going to fully explain the nature of Bast's relationship or his intentions. This goes for all of Pat's characters. Pat has only written two books. He has mentioned that he plans to write more about the "Four Corners" world in the future. So it is fully possible that we may not know the extent of a character until we read an entire book centralized around that character sometime 20 years down the road.

Bast's one of the things he's actually mentioned will be further explored in the third book.

around 2:40

But yah, he could wrap all this up without answering every question. Presumably we'll get enough clues to swing a couple mysteries one way or the other, though.

I don't endorse the idea that Bast knows Felurian, he would have reacted more upon hearing her name. Also, just because we only know 2 characters of the Fae doesn't mean their linked. Like you said, there's nothing to link them, so I haven't :P

Personally, I don't really care about Bast, his character just doesn't really interest me.

So Im new to the forums but have had around five rereads per. I've been fairly concerned about the new book as it seems we have an awful lot of information to squeeze in.
I like the notion that the war isnt solely a mortal war highlighted by the facts:
1.we have scrael, a faen creature, attacking people in the mortal realm.
2.Obviously, something rather epic brings Bast to our realm and under the tutilage of K.
3.this one Im less sure about as I havent read NOTW in awhile and I might be mixing ideas, but I think the King K kills is the fight that is describe by the drunken traveler. This implies quite a bit actually in that there are magic's involved which could imply a few things. One it would give credence to the ambrose king notion but I hardly would think that would be and epic fight but also it would be much more fitting if it were a faen king of some type.

Obviousllly I like this idea as it validates/is the back drop for my theory of it being world war creation war II. Plus this would help keep the DOS plot from having to many splitters and would link everything up with the frame.

Slightly of topic perhaps but in my mind it goes with this thread lol

I'm not even sure I remember what I thought of Bast, other than mild curiosity, before Pat started talking about him as the second or third most interesting character in the story.

Benjamin wrote: "So Im new to the forums but have had around five rereads per. I've been fairly concerned about the new book as it seems we have an awful lot of information to squeeze in.
I like the notion that the..."

I don't think there's much evidence at all for a more than mundane, probably Vintic, civil war or rebellion. I'll admit the scrael are a mystery, but alone they're not enough to suggest a Faen incursion. And we know Kvothe meets up with Bast before whatever he did sent him into hiding.