Glens Falls (NY) Online Book Discussion Group discussion
Topics Other Than Bks-Pics-TV.
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If you like dogs, you'll enjoy this (re: "DOG LOGIC"). (g)
Cute, Joy. Thanks. I've always loved the quotes from Heinlein, Twain & Caras. One other one I've always liked is on a pillow of my Uncle's; "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read."
LOL - good one, Jim.Of course, the ultimate quote is this one:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brothers and sisters I bid you beware
Of giving your heart to a dog to tear."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the poem, "The Power of the Dog" by Rudyard Kipling
I found those words engraved on a plate in an antique store.
That's what led me to eventually find the entire poem.
See the entire poem at: ====>
http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_dog.htm
Kipling is one of the few poets I actually like.I think it's puppy day today. Amber isn't eating - the dogs all beg for & receive some lunch meat & cheese when I make my sandwich in the morning. She didn't ask. She's hunting for a proper nest, which she has set up already, but she's restless.
I meant to get some pictures of her yesterday. While she's lost her waist, she isn't very large in the belly. Last night her tits started filling, so we were pretty sure about her going in to labor today. I could feel the difference between when I got home & before I went to bed. It's her first time though, so nothing is positive. Let's hope she has an easy labor of it. Probably only one or two pups.
Thanks Joy for sharing the doggie pics and quotes, loved it! Jim what kind of dog is Amber? You'll have to keep us informed on her 'puppy' progress! I have come to the conclusion that our little pekingese Abby that we got last April needs to meet with Caesar, The Dog Whisperer! She has issues with doors! Yes, you heard right, doors! She barks her little head off when you open, close, touch the door. Used to only be the outside doors; now she is progressing to inside doors! I say it's because it makes her mad that she's not big enough or that she can't open them herself ie she's not a person (really upsets her!).
Dogs are such odd critters. Door issues, indeed!Amber is a Jack Russell, although she's registered through the AKC, so officially she's a Parson Russell. Same thing, vicious, little, stubborn mutt. She's sweet though. I'll try to post some pictures early next week.
Jim, I hope Amber will be OK giving birth to her puppies. Did you say that this is her first litter? Keep us posted on her progress.Cindy, Abby sounds cute. For sure, she's talking to you when she barks. I think your theory is correct. Our Romeo always looks so sad when we go out the front door. Our other Maltese, jorji, had terrible separation anxiety. People told us that he would bark the whole time we were out. He did the same thing when we left him in the car... bark, bark, bark.
Yes, first litter. No pups yet, resting comfortably. I have printed out directions for 4 different 24 hour vets for Marg. They're all about an hour away, though.
Glad the expectant mother (Amber) is resting comfortably.Sometimes that's all I wish for myself. (g)
PS-not pregancy... rest. LOL
Well, she quit having labor this afternoon. She'll likely start up again in the wee hours.
This is getting exciting! Who's the daddy?
Not exciting, worrisome, for a narrow hipped bitch on her first time. I guess it was a false labor, but it was pretty hard & long for that. Marg said about 10:30 last night, she had some leakage, but never went into labor after that. So no puppies yet. Keep your fingers crossed.
My fingers are crossed, Jim.Do you know who the father is?
Oh, sorry. The father is a young dog that belongs to one of Marg's students on her bus run. He's a few miles down the road. He's not a registered JRT, but has a 5 generation pedigree, so we can register the pups. He's a smooth coat, like Amber, about her height, too - 11.5". I never met him, but Marg says he's nice.You don't sleep much, do you, Joy? I see posts from you until I go to bed & then you're posting again at 4am or so. My maternal Grandmother used to go to bed every night at 10pm & get up at 2 or 3am. I wish I could get by on that little sleep.
Jim, to answer your question, I take naps. That's my secret. (g) The naps recharge my batteries so that I'm fresh as a daisy when I wake up. I find that recharging my batteries allows me to accomplish more because I not only have more energy, but I think more clearly.I'm retired... so I can sleep when I feel tired. It really doesn't matter when I sleep, as long as I get enough sleep. And believe me, I do. LOL
Now I have a question for you. (g) How can organizations like the American Kennel Club be sure that the people applying for pedigree papers are telling the truth about the parents of the puppies? I've always wondered about this.
This is 'Advice from a Dog'. I adore dogs and their wonderful qualitites. I rarely keep stuff like this but I had to keep this one:When loved ones come home, always run to greet them.
Never pass up the opportunity to go for a joyride.
Allow in the experience of fresh air and the wind.
Let others know when they've invaded your territory.
Take naps.
Stretch before rising.
Run, romp, and play daily.
Thrive on attention and let people touch you.
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do.
On warm days, stop to lay on your back in the grass.
On hot days, drink lots of water and lie under a
shady tree.
When you're happy, dance around and wag your entire
body.
No matter how often you're scolded, don't buy into
the guilt thing and pout..! run right back and make friends.
Delight in the simple joy of a long walk.
Eat with gusto and enthusiasm. Stop when you have
had enough.
Be loyal. Never pretend to be something you're not.
If what you want lies buried, dig until you find it.
When someone is having a bad day, be silent, sit
close by and nuzzle
them gently.
That's beautiful, Jackie.
That's great, Jackie. A lot of that is what makes a good spouse, too.Joy, I really don't know enough about it, but I suspect a lot depends on the registry. Breeders can lie, but if caught, get banned, along with other legal ramifications. Easiest to lie if you own both parents, but not worth the risk, generally.
Some registries are open, some closed, some issue different types of papers & have different qualifications. For instance, to be a quarter horse, you just have to have one registered quarter horse in your bloodline. I know of one horse who was 15/16 Thoroughbred & 1/16 Quarter horse but was a registered Quarter horse.
POA's (Ponies of America) are pony sized Appoloosa's, but there is a gap. POA's have to be 14H or less, Apoloosas 14.2H or more. I think that if either one is between 14H & 14.2, they get Pink Papered, which means they can't compete in a show as the breed, but their foal can get full papers if it meets the size requirement. Ditto if one parent isn't papered for the breed. They can't cross register, though.
For JRT's, I think the JRT club registry is closed, but if you have 5 generations on both sides & it contains a recognized JRT, you're in. I believe the AKC Parson Russell is open still & you can just prove the breed standard.
Also, people can & do query the registar, by-passing the breeder, so if there are conflicting reports from others, a breeder can get looked at hard. No one wants that.
Amber has really bagged up, but shown no signs of nesting today, as she did yesterday morning. No temperature - steady at 100 - & Marg saw a puppy moving around, so I guess all is well. Yesterday was just a false start. I sure hope she has the little buggers tonight or tomorrow, so Marg doesn't have to take off of work.
Joy,I can answer the pedigree question for you. The only way to get a pedigree paper the dog is to show proof that both sire and dame a AKC registered dog. When a breeder has a new litter, they register the litter with the AKC. The AKC now knows how many pups are born, their sex and markings. When you purchase one of these pups, the breeder gives you a paper of your registered litter pup (with a number) which you use to register your new puppy.
I guess people can lie but I think it would be difficult and not worth the risk for the breeder. The amount of future money is too great to take the risk on a few illegal pups. And every breeder I know is too proud of the pups they do have, to allow an inferior animal into their ranks. It would also pollute the bloodline and breeders are sticklers about that because it would lessen their own breed and the money they bring. They'd only be screwing their own interests in the end.
Jim,
Will you post pix of the new puppies sometime soon?
(Please, please, please! I am puppy crazy!)
Thank you, Jim and Jackie for explaining about the breeding and the pedigree papers. I'm amazed at your knowledge about all of this. I didn't have a clue.We have papers for Romeo as a Maltese from the American Canine Association, but I've always wondered about him because he has such a long body and legs. He also weighs 10 pounds which is heavier than the breed standard which is under 7 pounds. We bought him from a breeder we found on the Internet.
Our other Maltese jorji, was also over 7 pounds but had a smaller build. We had no papers for jorji because he was given to us by a friend from work who owned both parents which were supposedly papered Maltese. I sometimes suspected that jorji's parents may have been very closely related to each other.
Joy, I have a friend who is a breeder and my sister used to breed Brittany Spaniels. Juneau is my first purebreed dog.
Not every dog is 'show' quality, it doesn't mean that dog isn't a purebreed. Dogs, like people, are unique. These Associations can set standards but they know every dog of the particular breed will differ.
Juneau is large for a Malamute. According to the AKC he should be 80 lbs, but he's 115 lbs and not overweight. That's a marked difference. As beautiful as he is, he'd never be 'show' quality because of his size. And he's been neutered, so that would disqualify him anyway.
As far as being related, it doesn't matter. It's a religious thing more than anything. In fact, that's how breeds are created so it's kind of silly to make a fuss over the same thing later.
Jackie wrote: "Not every dog is 'show' quality, it doesn't mean that dog isn't a purebreed."Thanks for making that distinction, Jackie.
I was under the impression that dogs who are brothers and sisters weren't good as co-parents because any bad traits would be exaggerated in the offspring.
I didn't know that neutering disqualified a dog for shows. Because our jorji wasn't neutered at an early age, he had prostate trouble later in his life which led to him having inguinal hernia. We spent over a thousand dollars for his hernia surgery and had to take him to an overnight surgery down in Scotia, near Albany. It was difficult surgery because he was so small.
Our jorji had such a cute face, I always hoped we could mate him. Never did. Romeo's face isn't quite as cute because his snout is a bit longer than jorji's, but that's covered up by a good haircut at the groomer.
On the other hand, Romeo is much more affectionate than jorji was. Jorji would lie next to Eddie, but didn't want to be held. Romeo wants to be held all the time! He's a cuddler, exactly what I was looking for when we found via the Internet.
I always feel bad when I compare Romeo to jorji. It's not fair for me to do that because they're each special in their own way and we love them both.
PHOTOS:
Romeo: http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL25/9...
jorji: http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL25/9...
jorji as a pup: http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL25/9...
So...you named Romeo correctly! I'm jealous because Juneau is not a cuddler. He was when he was puppy, but what puppy isn't? Now he's a teenage brat who wouldn't be caught snuggling with mommy, LOLYou wrote: I was under the impression that dogs who are brothers and sisters weren't good as co-parents because any bad traits would be exaggerated in the offspring.
That goes for the good qualities also.
Each pairing is hopeful, no matter what, because there are qualities in the bloodline that aren't always obvious in the parent. For example, Juneau's fur is completely different than either of his parents; it must come from one of their parents or even further back. Juneau's fur is nicer than his parents, I got lucky. It's so long and thick and seriously wooly underneath. His breeder pairs the same parents and if they are lucky they get this fur quality once a litter.
If Juneau weren't neutered, and he mated with a female from another litter who had the same fur, (same parents), eventually they'd have a majority of pups with the same fur. It can happen sooner or later, but the point is, for certain desirable traits they do this type of thing to solidify the trait and make it a dominant trait in the offspring.
I know what you mean about comparing dogs, but they are different, how can you not compare certain things about them? Don't feel bad, because you treasure each for those unique qualities each has.
They say to be careful what you wish for. Romeo wants to be on my lap all the time. I have to squeeze him in with my laptop. LOL He's cute... but he can be a pest. (g)I see what you mean about breeding for good traits.
Our son's big dog, Alice, doesn't want to be hugged either. I hug her anyway. Then I give a treat. That always wins her over. She's such a fusspot.
Do you have to brush Juneau a lot? Alice needs to be brushed all the time because her fur is so thick. The brush gathers gobs and gobs of fur. I can imagine how luxurious Juneau's fur is.
PHOTOS:
Alice: http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL25/9...
jorji and Fetchie: http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL25/9...
Jim, I am anxiously waiting for word from you on your puppies! Checked my email this morning; saw an update on the discussion and thought puppies!! Hope they come soon.
I came here first to check on the puppy progress!!
I'm checking on the puppies too, LOL. I told you I am puppy crazy. You don't want to wacth a movie about puppies with me, because I yell "Puppies" every time I see one, LOLJoy,
Juneau and brushing, all the time. I have to use the rake rather than a brush. A brush works for the long guard hair but is pretty much useless. The rake gets to the wooly undercoat and that's what's sheds a lot. If he isn't brushed often, it can mat and I don't want that to start. I get very upset when I see dogs who have mats in their coats; it's painful because it pulls the skin. Not my baby, LOL
Twice a year, Juneau does a big shed, a complete change of undercoat and it's almost impossible to keep up on it. I can brush him for an hour and run my hand over him and still more hair. That's when I send him to the groomer here in LG, Yankee Clipper. She is fantastic! She has him all day and he comes home so beautiful, I don't have to brush him for 3 weeks!
I have dog hair all over the place, all the time. I vacuum everyday and still, there's hair!
Good morning all... er ... good afternoon! I'm a bit behind schedule today. Guess we're all still waiting for Jim's pups to be born. Come on Amber!Jackie, about the dog-fur-shedding, I can sympathize with you. Every time our kids visit with their dogs, we find fur all over. With Romeo we don't have to worry about that 'cause he doesn't shed. Chalk one up for the Maltese breed! (lol)
But because he doesn't shed, we have to take him to the groomer, at $40 a pop these days. Before we had Maltese dogs, I thought dog grooming was only for snobs... but now I see it as a necessity. Matting can get out of hand and I don't have the patience to comb Romeo everyday. We go to Classy Clip in Queensbury. She does a good job making him look like a classy Maltese... with a puppy cut. Before his groomings, he always looks like the typical shaggy dog.
Below are some "before-and-after-grooming" photos: ====>
http://picasaweb.google.com/Sea1934/O...#
(Click on slideshow and then click on the "pause" icon to control the timing.)
Below is a photo of jorji looking his absolute worst! ====>
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL25/9...
Wow, what a difference!I think Jorji's 'worst' is pretty darn cute!
I watched a show on Animal Planet last night & it was about a little rescue dog, they think poodle/papillon. Had been left in an apt when the people were evcited. It was thought that he had never been out of the apt & knew nothing about outdoors/people/animals....he was so matted & filled with feces, the poor thing. You should have seen the mess his little face was... I was surprised he wasn't bity or snappy...they paired him up with a little shy girl who loved dogs but was afraid of them. They took things very slowly for both of them & over time that little girl fell in love with him & he loved her....It was a sweet story. It broke my heart to see what that dog was like & to think of what could have happened.....they gave him a puppy cut & he was so darn cute.....his fur needed more time to grow back in because the matting had caused some hair loss....
Jackie wrote: "Wow, what a difference!I think Jorji's 'worst' is pretty darn cute!"
Thank you, Jackie. Yes, there's something appealing about a shaggy dog. (g)
Hi Becky - I'm glad the story about that little dog had a happy ending. Jim pointed me to Animal Planet and I'm glad he did. I hadn't been paying much attention to it. But now I will check it out every day. Jim mentioned the programs about agility courses. I hope to see one of those.
When they have the Eukanuba Torunaments I love to watch the agility competition. Those dogs are amazing!
I looked for a video showing an agility competition, but couldn't find one.I thought EVERYTHING was on YouTube these days! (lol)
I am.
Take a look at this. (g)====>
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=e1eqvl7...
How's THAT for agility! (lol)
Here's one:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HKXsX...
This one's shorter but a better picture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBU439...
The poles get me; I love the way they move.
Boy, those dogs can fly! Amazing!Quite a workout for the owners too!
Thanks for the links, Jackie.
You're right about the workout for the owners. Last year when Marg put her oldest bitch, Harley, in an agility contest, they got third place. Marg said she was the issue - too fat & old to keep up with Harley! Our dogs don't do the bending poles nearly as fast as some of those dogs. The Border Collies seem to be the fastest. Absolutely incredible watching them fly through them.
Border Collies are great at agility, they are the reason I watch it.
Jim wrote: "You're right about the workout for the owners. Last year when Marg put her oldest bitch, Harley, in an agility contest, they got third place. Marg said she was the issue - too fat & old to keep up with Harley!"I think back on how active I used to be. I could swim many lengths of pools with no problem. Now I find it hard just treading water! LOL
Yep... as they say ... "Those days are gone forever."
Of course, if I exercised more...
I'll have to try.
We were watching some trials the other day & they had the long jump contest where the dog jumps after a frisbee into a pool. We think the year before the winner was a border collie who made it almost to the end of the pool. This last one was all Labs. Not nearly as impressive.I'd love to have a Border Collie, but we don't have any work for one. That's our biggest problem with Mollie, the Australian Cow Dog mix. She's bred to work all day & wants to herd stuff so badly! Horses aren't for herding though, especially ponies. Speedy, our old Welsh pony, chases Molly as often as the other way around. Poor Molly has too much energy & not enough to do. She's settling down now that she's 3, but she's still a handful. Pixie is keeping her amused too.
Amber STILL hasn't had her puppies. She hasn't been eating much, but isn't nesting as much as she was Friday morning. No temperature & Marg has seen the puppies squirming around inside her. Her due date was last Friday, so they have to come soon. We're supposed to get an ice storm tomorrow & into Wed. Marg will likely be off work, but that means a run to the vets will be tough, too.
It must be fun to watch Speedy, the pony, chasing Molly the dog. (g) I guess it's a game to them.Hope Amber's puppies come soon and that she'll be OK. Thanks for keeping us posted.
Speedy & Molly have made kind of a game of it. It gets serious if Speedy can catch Molly, though. He likes to bite dogs that annoy him & kick them, if at all possible. He also snapped at Pixie, who is learning bad habits from Molly. Taught her a lesson. That he snapped & didn't kick shows that's what he was trying to do. A kick would have probably just killed her. Pixie leaves him alone now.
He never bites or kicks at the other dogs. Unlike Cutter, Marg's young TB. He took a dislike to Munchkin for some reason & ran him over once. Poor old man won't go out in the field unless he's right by us now. He can't see or hear well enough to get out of Cutter's way. Animals can be cruel.
Strange how animals differ in their reactions to other animals. Seems they're fussy about whom they like. We see that when our sons bring their dogs and their friends' dogs to the house. Well, to be truthful, Alice, the German shepherd mix, is the troublemaker. She's selfish and takes all the other dog's toys. Then she guards them all day unless we take them away from her. She even guards her food without eating it. OTOH, Boogie is laid back and just let's Alice get away with whatever she wants. If anyone is going to start a fight, it will be Alice.Boogie and Romeo play so well together. Alice and Romeo play well together too. But Alice and Boogie never play with one another.
Then there's our son's friend's dog, Cosmo, a Boxer. He gets along with everyone... but we think maybe he's not too bright. (g) Cute and friendly though.
How old is old man Munchkin?
PS - Here's a pic of Cosmo, the Boxer: ====>
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj...
He's really precious.
Munchkin will be 18 in July.Bad news about Amber & her pregnancy. one large puppy that died without ever moving into the birth canal. Since this was only her second heat in 3.5 years, Marg had her spayed too. So instead of puppies to make money, we have a $900 bill. Amber should be fine, but she's spending the night at the vets.
Jim wrote: "Munchkin will be 18 in July.Bad news about Amber & her pregnancy. one large puppy that died without ever moving into the birth canal. Since this was only her second heat in 3.5 years, Marg ha..."
I'm so sorry, Jim! That is so sad. Do you know why the puppy died? Did Amber deliver naturally or did they take the puppy by Caesarian?
I wonder if she knew she was expecting.
What kind of dog is Munchkin? You've probably told me, but I forget. What is the normal life span for his breed? 18 seems so old for a dog. Jorji lived a bit past his 17th birthday.
thanks for the sympathy. As far as we know, Amber is fine, although getting her from the vet might be a trick today. We have 3" of snow & it's raining on top of it now. Since it's 20 degrees out, that means UGLY! I'm not going in to work as it isn't supposed to get any better & we haven't had a snowplow come by, even on the main road.Joy, when a bitch only has one or two puppies, often they will grow too big & can't be born naturally. They're meant to have multiple pups & when they don't, it's generally trouble. A bitch should have 2 heats per year from the time she's 9 months to a year old. Amber obviously wasn't ovulating properly, so Marg decided to stop the problem now.
Amber certainly knew she was pregnant & had bagged up a lot. She just never went into full labor, which fooled us for too long. The pup may have lived if we'd gotten her into the vet on Saturday. Might not have, too.
All our dogs are Jack Russell Terriers, except Molly who is a Austrailian Shepard mix - she looks a lot like an Austrailian Cow dog from Austrailia, not the American variety, I think. In any case, she has no papers & is likely a mutt, although she was sold (cheap) as an Austrailian Cow dog.
Yes, I see that Amber didn't have a normal pregancy. I'm assuming it was a Caesarian delivery.OK, now I think I've got your dog breeds straight. Thanks.
Enjoy your "snow day". There's something cozy about a day when your stuck inside because of a snow storm. I suppose that's the only advantage... a cozy, restful day.
We've decided that Amber is going to have to stay another day at the vet's. It's just too ugly out & there have been no snowplows through, even though the road to the north is a snow emergency route. It's driving Marg nuts, but the extra charge & her comfort just isn't worth the chance.
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/489089/Dog-...
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It's called "Dog Logic".
See the inner scroll bar and scroll down to see some cute pics with accompanying quotations.
This is going around by email. I don't know why folks just don't send the links.