Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

The 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

We have a group poll on this subject which we'll keep running and updating until the election in Nov 2020.
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/1...

On the list so far include the following confirmed, rumored and "wish list" candidates:
Donald J. Trump, Jon Rappoport, Oprah Winfrey, Howard Schultz, Bernie Sanders, Michael Bloomberg, Joe Biden, Kanye West, Cory Booker, Michelle Obama, Bill Weld, John Kerry, Jim Webb, Al Gore, Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, John McAfee, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Jesse Ventura, Marco Rubio, Jill Stein, Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson, Alec Baldwin, Zoltan Istvan, Kirsten Gillibrand, Chelsea Clinton, Mark Cuban, Ivanka Trump, Alex E. Jones, Michael Avenatti, Tulsi Gabbard, Beto O’Rourke

Donald Trump's midterm results and exit polls have left us some big clues about 2020 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-1...

That is a horrible list. If Trump is to lose, Corey Booker is probably the only credible name on that list for moving the country forward.

Trump is now our 4th Baby Boomer President, and the generation is only getting older. Our next President needs to be a Gen Xer to send a message that we're ready to move forward from the current wave of scandal-ridden presidents. We don't signal that we want the country to move forward by going backwards to elect our next leader.

In a broader sense, I'm not sure another Congressman is a good choice for President. Bad news for Booker, but to use him as an example, what's the extent of leadership he's going to bring to the job? A history of grandstanding during committee hearings? Historically, governors are looked at because their roles are miniature versions of the President's job. The one thing Hillary had going for her in 2016, is that a lot of our Presidents have served as Secretary of State as well. Military leaders are another popular choice, and the funny thing is that while they may have made great generals, they tend to be okay Presidents...and maybe that's what we need - someone who just lets the country coast for 4-8 years while we catch our breaths and calm down as a people...

I won't vote for K.Harris after checking her prosecution record. She was on my good list but not any more. Plus her, Booker, and Gillibrand have already went to Wall Street checking to see if they can get backing. Doesn't sound like they are being the progressives they say they are. Booker was very outspoken against Obama too!

Wall Street doesn't want anyone in that won't make them richer. They like Biden,Harris, and Booker. They hate Warren and Sanders.

Trump he is like the Dave character in the old movie.

Hillary Clinton confirms she won't run for president in 2020 https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-am...

Michelle Obama is the only one who can beat Donald Trump in 2020 – if only she would run

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/p...

James wrote: "Michelle Obama is the only one who can beat Donald Trump in 2020 – if only she would run

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/p......"

The last line in your link is depressing - Trump is the President Americans deserve. But I feel that now Clinton is not running the Dems chances have improved greatly, as long as they don't shoot themselves in the foot with their persistent hounding of Trump. They should accept the Mueller report, whatever it says, and shut up. Otherwise they merely get the Republicans firmed up, and many of the undecided who don't usually vote to feel sympathy for Trump.

Ian wrote: "Trump is the President Americans deserve."

I would agree with that, although not because I like Trump or America. I predicted Trump's win long before it happened; he is simply the type of person millions of Americans aspire to be. I think he has a significant shot of winning reelection, but it depends greatly on who his adversary is. Personally, I would have voted for Oprah, solely because she would be the candidate least likely to start a war or launch a nuke.

Israel wrote: "Ian wrote: "Trump is the President Americans deserve."

I would agree with that, although not because I like Trump or America. I predicted Trump's win long before it happened; he is simply the type..."

If Trump is the President Americans deserve, that's a worry for America (and the world).

Obviously, many Americans would violently disagree they deserve him. But how many? I guess we'll find out in the next presidential election.

Israel wrote: "Ian wrote: "Trump is the President Americans deserve."

I would agree with that, although not because I like Trump or America. I predicted Trump's win long before it happened; he is simply the type..."

For what it is worth, I have a friend in the UK and we exchange sooths from time to time. I predicted Trump over 1 year out. However, I think he won mainly because Hillary has a lot of people against her, especially the way she beat Bernie.

Marianne Williamson’s First Act in Office: Call New Zealand PM and Say ‘Girlfriend, You Are So On’ https://www.thedailybeast.com/2020-de...

James wrote: "Marianne Williamson’s First Act in Office: Call New Zealand PM and Say ‘Girlfriend, You Are So On’ https://www.thedailybeast.com/2020-de......"

Hmm - another example of be careful what you wish for??? Jacinda rose to serious popularity for wearing a headscarf and being popular after our unexpected piece of local terrorism. Great photo ops, but she still has the task of running the country. She will probably win the next election because not a huge amount will go wrong between now and then, but there are very few real policy scores on the board so far.

Ian wrote "They should accept the Mueller report, whatever it says, and shut up. Otherwise they merely get the Republicans firmed up, and many of the undecided who don't usually vote to feel sympathy for Trump."

I definitely would agree with that statement as the Democrats shouldn't create more friction with their voters with these false claims, otherwise they could keep reducing their chances to getting votes for the 2020 election

Lance wrote: "The 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

We have a group poll on this subject which we'll keep running and updating until the election in Nov 2020.
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/1...-..."

Concerning your list , I see a glaring exception : Since 1968 Mickey Mouse has received votes in every Presidential election . I think this might be his break-through campaign as his ideas have remained consistent , non-offensive and apolitical for over 50 years . That beats Bernie in almost every category .

I'd like one of these guys to win in 2020...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlBIa...

Have a great day Undergrounders!

Lance wrote: "I'd like one of these guys to win in 2020...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlBIa...

Have a great day Undergrounders!"

Great selection, Lance. I can see you have the Americans' best interests at heart.

Needless to say, in the poll I am in the group that can't even get to 1%, so prospects for my pick are less than likely.

Ian wrote: "Lance wrote: "I'd like one of these guys to win in 2020...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlBIa...

Have a great day Undergrounders!"

Great selection, Lance. I can see you have the Americans'..."

Thanks Ian. I thought you might approve.

According to The Ultimate Guide To the 2020 election, the key issues for voters will include:

• Health Care
• Energy & Climate Change
• Infrastructure
• Big Tech & Privacy
• The American Dream
• Immigration
• The National Debt
• Gun Safety

That pretty much sums it up for me. It's hard to balance the need for repairs to our infratstructure and the need for us all to deal with the Climate Change that is killing our world. We really have no choice here. We must deal with the Climate Change threat before we work on fixing our bridges before they fall into the rivers along with all of us. Everytime I ride over that big bridge between Oregon and Washington state to visit my sister in Portland or return home to Longview, I am scared! Truly scared. At any moment the bridge could collapse, because we can't get the funds from our President and our Congress to pay for repairs. This is a crisis all over our country. And then there is the problem of the Ice Caps melting and the ocean levels rising to drown us all in our coastal cities. The whole situation is a terrifying mess!

The trick is not to list the problems, but rather to list solutions that might work, and then, following General Wesley Clark, have a way to make them work.

I've finally decided who I'd like to see win the Presidential Nomination for 2020.... Elizabeth Warren. The more I see her and listen to her reasoning and her ideas, the more I think she's the smartest person running.. and the one with a mind focused on solutions, and not on excuses. Of course, I totally realize that she'll have a hell of a time getting that nomination in our male-dominated political vice --- but if we EVER needed a change of direction and a Change of the Guard, now is sure that time, and she's the change I think we need. I hope I'm wrong, and she wins it!

She's back (maybe)...



Hillary Rodham Clinton 2020?
https://spectator.us/trump-impeachmen...
A 2016 election 2.0 would be a dream come true for Trump

Are the Dems going to be that silly?

At this point, "silly Dems" is a tautology.

Silly Dems silly Republicans, evil Dems evil Republicans.

ENTIRE political system is rigged by the Elite.

Anything can happen... depends on who's got the biggest pot full of money. Considering that tRump has been getting funds from the Top 1% to the toon of $30 Million (or is that Billion - the emails from Nancy Pelosi are dire) ... (or has that doubled by now...possibly), and I've been getting begging letters from Nancy Pelosi for donations, I think it could be possible that somehow, Hillary Clinton could pull up enough donations to make a run this time. I'd certainly HATE to see that b***tard in the White House beat her to death this time around, though. All bets are off for 2020, I think.

How the impeachment inquiry could affect the 2020 US election https://qz.com/1722128/how-will-the-i...

The next 13 months will see American politics completely dominated by the fate of Donald Trump. As the House of Representatives moves towards impeaching him, leading to a hearing which then moves to the Senate, the Democrats will be engaged in an increasingly bitter contest for the nomination to run against Trump in the November 2020 elections.

At this stage, it appears there are the numbers in the house for impeachment, which entails formally charging the president with “high crimes and misdemeanors.” Their indictment then moves to the Senate, which can remove the president by a two-thirds majority, in a hearing chaired by the chief justice.

Because 2020 is an election year, both sides will manage proceedings with an eye to the November poll. It is possible the house will vote before the end of the year: the decision to impeach Bill Clinton for lying under oath was made in the last three months of 1998.

Clinton was cleared by the Senate by the following February, so it is also possible the Senate will hold its own proceedings before most of the presidential primaries commence. It takes two-thirds of the Senate to remove a president from office, which has never happened.

Regardless of what the Republicans in the Senate decide about Trump, all of us here in America will be making our own decision about Trump's character and effectiveness as our leader, of course. Most of us already have decided that issue one way or the other. But the impeachment process could serve to focus our assessment, or judgment, of this president's competency and his intent. Thanks for your insightful assessment here.

Who wins the Presidency is less important than the down ballot races, because 2020 is a census year. This means that whichever party controls the most state governments will control redistricting for the coming decade of elections.

On a disturbing side note, there appears to be a Soros funded group working to put people they control into power, without regard to the actual qualifications of said people.

https://youtu.be/1h5iv6sECGU

I like Bernie Sanders. I think he is the best. Elizabeth Warren flip flops a lot. And the more you study her, the more problematic she becomes. Bernie's vision has been consistent. I like his strong support for universal health care, and commitment towards eradicating income inequality. He is unafraid to call out greed and exploitation by the richest at the expense of everyone. When I say everyone, I also include our entire planet.

I also like Tulsi Gabbard. She is ferocious in her anti-war messages, a cause that I admire a lot and the fact, no US presidential candidate, in my lifetime has supported anti-war mission with such ardour. The other thing I love about Tulsi is her commitment to free-speech and right to expression and with the directness with she has supported whistleblowers and publishers like Julian Assange.

What I find interesting is those who have actually served are the least enthusiastic about these wars. I find Tulsi's argument that she does know a bit but it because she was there somewhat refreshing - you know, using at evidence as a basis for decisions. My guess is she will be well behind, though.

I hate the National Election process. We're up to our eyebrows in all the propaganda, lies and panic attacks here a year before the Election (and it started back in June, I think). By the time we reach Election Day, I'll be hiding in my books, avoiding my TV (which I do anyway) AND my computer (which I spend all my free time at)...and feeling the Fear. As it has been said, "The fate of all Mankind, I fear, is in the hands of fools." (from an Eagles song). I have decided my choice for 2020 tho. Bernie Sanders -- he's worked SO hard on behalf of the people, and he's got a clear mind, lots of intelligence and a good heart. I saw a couple Warren videos, but I don't think that a woman has a snowball's chance in hell of getting the nomination.

Still too many of us (the old men on the farms, and in the corporate boardrooms) who can't accept a woman in the driver's seat of our government--and we need somebody with the will to stand up to the bullies in Congress. I think Bernie's got the chutzpah. I just hope the medical folks can keep him alive and healthy through at least one term (I'd love to see him make it through two). At this point, where Trump is concerned, I'm at the breaking point on that monster. He's a typical despotic dictator -- only he's got way too much money of his own, and he's willing to stop at nothing, The Corporate millionaires who are running the country behind closed boardroom doors would back him, anyway. They certainly don't want to lose control of the government.

Another term with him in the driver's seat would be just about enough for him to become America's first genuine dictator. I think he's been getting advice from Vladimir Putin on how to pull off a coup. (Phones in the dark of night.) The "dark state" that he's alluded to, I think, is our Corporate Elite and our 1% Upper Elite class. Sigh...

The misfortune we all face right now is that if anybody were to put these speculations in print in the news, they'd get laughed out of town--or picked up by the FBI in the wee hours of the night.

Ian wrote: "What I find interesting is those who have actually served are the least enthusiastic about these wars. I find Tulsi's argument that she does know a bit but it because she was there somewhat refresh..."

My only point of concern with Tulsi is her connection with India's fundamentalists. Still, it is refreshing to see someone competing for the position of world's most influential job on anti-war agenda. It would be good for the world.

I hope, for goodness sake, that Americans choose Bernie.

Ricky, I think you are partly safe. I can't see Tulsi getting any traction, although possibly Hillary's insults are helping. Also, if you want Bernie, given his age he had better pick an above-average VP

There are rumours Hillary is joining the race.

You are right Ian. I think there are some excellent politicians in US who could be great VPs. Unless he gives it to Warren which would be quite tragic. Still, I think the odds are stacked against him.

I am willing to bet, many of these "centrist/moderate" Democrats would rather Trump win another election than a real progressive American.

If Hillary does join, my guess is there will be a collection of them all with limited support. I also suspect if Hillary won the nomination, Trump will win the election. Americans seldom go for multiple losers.

Ian wrote: "Americans seldom go for multiple losers...."

That sounds like a quote Trump himself would say!

have you been reading this book, Ian?

No, James. It was an observation. As n aside, even Trump occasionally makes an apt observation :-)

Ian wrote: "No, James. It was an observation. As n aside, even Trump occasionally makes an apt observation :-)"

Oh I agree.
Old Trumpy Bear sometimes has wisdom of his own :)

James wrote: "Ian wrote: "Americans seldom go for multiple losers...."

That sounds like a quote Trump himself would say!

have you been reading this book, Ian?

"

You do know that the ghost writer of that book has been a harsh critic of Trump for a while now?

https://youtu.be/qxF_CDDJ0YI

The linked video seems like one narcissist taking shots at another narcissist. As a result, I think it is safe to accept Schwartz's criticism of Trump where the facts in evidence support them. His personal opinions should be taken with the same grain of salt that you might take with a man's stories of his ex. (Probably a grain of truth, but exagerated and self agrandizing.)

For those who might rush in with complaints of how the "deplorables" condemned us to suffer beneath the grindstone of Trump's sociopathy, I'll point out the massive narcissism needed to decry half of the nation as "deplorables", because they didn't like her.

J. wrote: "You do know that the ghost writer of that book has been a harsh critic of Trump for a while now?..."

Nope. I'm like JOKER and staunchly apolitical and do not allow myself to ever get sucked into the Left/Right enslavement paradigm and also try to pay as little attention to politicians as humanly possible -- apart from potential satirical angles of course...It's also funny to sit back and watch people select political sides and exhibit blind faith for their political team or leader...

However, you do know any ghostwritten book with a person's name on it (Trump's name is on that book as its "author") is vetted carefully by the celebrity who encourage numerous rewrites until they say it is ready to be published? Most autobiographical books by celebs are ghost written, tho that doesn't mean those books don't carry the precise spirit or intentions of each celebrity...

Ya got me. I'm enamoured with the ideal of our Republic, and I'm sickened by the harms that have been inflicted upon her by the party system. Hence, I called both Trump and Clinton narcissists.

Eschewing the political process is not a virtue. You can do nothing to change a system unless you engage with that system. Those who cite difficulties in maintaining integrity during that engagement as just cause to be apolitical are short selling their own moral agency and the moral agency of their peers. If government of the people, by the people, and for the people disappears from this Earth, will the apoliticos be any less at fault than the zealots on either end, who may bring its end to fruition?

When your biographer starts saying that he did it because he needed the money, your careful vetting is found wanting.

J. wrote: "You can do nothing to change a system unless you engage with that system...."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXaO2...

Iain wrote: "I am the same James. I mean it's like people join certain groups because of where it sits on the spectrum rather than what they stand for. I mean it's like celebrating St Patrick's Day, only becaus..."

Yeah, the old motto "if you don't vote, you don't matter" is starting to sound more and more like rhetoric to keep the system in place...In fact, you could rewrite it to "If you vote, you still don't matter" and it's arguably just as logical given recent history.

There have been negligible changes for the common people since WW2...the Elites or the oligarchies or whoever is pulling the strings, seem to have gotten things sewn up in their favour pretty good...

How many lies and manipulations and undemocratic manipulations within our "democracy" have to occur before we all realise it's a completely rigged game against us for THEM?

Time to challenge the whole damn political system I say... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrTq8...

Choosing to stay back and not vote is in itself a political expression. Voting can be an act of submission sometimes because what choices emerge on the ballot are often predetermined in boardroom handshakes and secret chambers.

2016 US elections serves a good example. One doesn't have to live in the naval of America to know that the will of the people cannot in any way come down between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

Ian wrote: "No, James. It was an observation. As n aside, even Trump occasionally makes an apt observation :-)"

Oh you know, a broken clock is right twice a day.

Ricky wrote: "Choosing to stay back and not vote is in itself a political expression. Voting can be an act of submission sometimes because what choices emerge on the ballot are often predetermined in boardroom handshakes and secret chambers...."

Bingo.
Being apolitical is not always due to political apathy or political ignorance. Sometimes it's because of a great awareness of political matters.

If Hillary runs again it might be the first time ever I just can't bring myself to vote. I voted for her with the least amount of enthusiasm in my life last election; at this point, I can't take any of it seriously anymore of they ran her again. Her pot-shot at Tulsi officially put me over the edge with her...can't even make an "anyone but Trump" vote for her at this point.