Red Queen discussion

*whispers* team cal
*says* Team Cal
*shouts* Team Cal!
*screams* TEAM CAL
*jumps off a bridge and last dying words are* TEAAAAAAM CALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

CAL IS BAE. I SHIP HIM SO HARD WITH MARE IT PHYSICALLY ACHES IN MY CHEST. I loved him at first sight. Its not that i don't like Maven, my heart is torn between these two HOT boys but team cal 4ever because, well, I LOVE HIM.

TEAM CAL AND MARE
TEAM CARE
I CARE ABOUT TEAM CARE

When i started reading this I already had a feeling that it's Cal. But then MAVEN OH MAVEN ENTERED THE PICTURE.

I literally cried when Maven betrayed Mare. I know it's a bit overreacting but who cares I SHIP THEM SO HARD. I tried to like Cal because he still helped Mare despite her betrayal but no i just can't.

PLS I KNOW THE CUTE LITTLE BOY MARE USED TO KNOW STILL EXISTS. I KNOW THAT HE'S STILL IN THERE.

Yaj wrote: "When i started reading this I already had a feeling that it's Cal. But then MAVEN OH MAVEN ENTERED THE PICTURE.

I literally cried when Maven betrayed Mare. I know it's a bit overreacting but who ..."
i have a strong feeling he is still in there , hopefully we will see more of him in the second book , and i really hope he shows some kind of conflicted emotions toward mare

Menna wrote: "ok so this might sound weird but def maven the kid has great potential to become so much more as a character and i think he'll surprise us all in the next book (call me crazy but i actually think m..."

I'm holding on to this. Even though I have a feeling that Cal's chance is higher. It looks really obvious. But who knows. A lot of twists are yet to come.

Cal all the way for me.
I like Maven as a villain, but I couldn't bring myself to like him as a boy. I don't know if I sounds crazy LOL.

I understand why he did what he did, but I can't forgive him for what he has done to his brother. It's ok for me if he used Mare (she did the same with both the guys) but the way he let his mother kill the King... that was when I realized I would never like him.
He hated his father because for him he was no one, and I understand that BUT Cal grew up without a mother too. Elara didn't care a bit about him as well. Besides, if you hate your father, why hating your brother like that too? He should have killed the King himself.
The way Cal was crying and begging them to stop tore my heart apart.
How can you be so cruel to let your brother/son kill his own father at nineteen yrs old?
Maven reminds me a bit of Loki in the movies, but the way he acted towards his brother was too much for me to handle. And I don't even believe in the "you stole everything from me" cause well, Cal saw and helped Mare first, and both the princes were forced to marry so... it's not like he stole her from him.

That being said, I don't even see Cal as a romantic interest! He loves his country more than Mare, he is a soldier. He would be a great King if he understands that even reds are people, but- I don't think Mare is ok for him. She used him too, so I don't know how something could start for them.

Well in the beginning I was in love with Maven put i Love Cal to so it din't matter with who she will end up. Put the plot twist made me re-think, it was hart breaking, it was amusing, i have no words to describe my felling put i will have to chose Maven. Because i just love his dark side and Mare even confess in the book her felling for Maven and i think he has a chance, it will not last but he has a chance.

https://twitter.com/EpicReads/status/...

OH NO MAVEN LEFT THE BADDEST IMPRESSION TO ME
IT WOULD SO CAL , ALTHOUGH HE DIDNT CHOOSE HER ?......
MHM..... WHAT DO U THINK?

Veronica wrote: "Cal all the way for me.
I like Maven as a villain, but I couldn't bring myself to like him as a boy. I don't know if I sounds crazy LOL.

I understand why he did what he did, but I can't forgive hi..."

this comment gives me life. It literally explains exactly how I feel.

Missanniev wrote: "I disliked Cal from the start. Cliche'd, boring, the usual 'oh so very noble' crown prince... When Maven came along, I fell head over heels for him, even if I saw from the start that he was going t..."

It's not that I disliked Cal, it's just that when Maven was introduced, I had eyes only for him! And, yes, they totally reminded me of Thor and Loki - in fact, Loki is my favourite! I didn't want to believe that he could betray Mare and his brother, though I knew it was a possibility... And now... I mean, I have nothing against Cal - I actually don't get how people might see him as the "bad boy" kind of guy, he's more like the stereotypical "popular guy" in high school, not necessarily "bad" (okay that probably doesn't make sense, so let's move on) - he's just not my type. But then there's MAVEN. I will always be team Maven, he's such an interesting character! I won't stop loving him unless he becomes just an emotionless monster or a pawn in his mother's hands (I mean the second as in "he just accepts what she does and tells him and has no will of his own"). I hope Elara is manipulating him to some extent, or that somehow he starts regretting what he's done and he starts a redemption arc. In that case, I would probably love him even more!

Adriana wrote: "Missanniev wrote: "I disliked Cal from the start. Cliche'd, boring, the usual 'oh so very noble' crown prince... When Maven came along, I fell head over heels for him, even if I saw from the start ..."

Yes!I agree with you! I simply had an eye for the bad brother, the one overlooked from the start.You make perfect sense and he does remind me of Loki a lot.

I dón´t know!
I like both of them...
at the start I didn´t like Cal, because I had this Feeling, like something is wrong with this man. And when Mare worked in the Castle - my friend and I had the Feeling : yes , We are pretty sure, he is the prince...and then it was clear that he is the prince
I like both : Maven and Cal
at the middle of the book I didn´t like Cal...
I mean it was not like I hate him, but he wasn´t anymore interesting me what he does... blabblabla
then (my best friend) she was reallý angry about me, because I told here what happens in the book, because we read it together ;-) (she read it very slowly :-()
We both are Team neutral I think, but I like both of them ;-) both hot Boys.... :-P

What if mare doesn't fall for cal or maven what if she falls for kilorn

Well I would actually be pleased with that ending...

Jasmine wrote: "Cal. I really never liked or trusted Maven"

saaaaaaame!!

I wouldn't mind if she ended up with Kilorn.

Me to I just dont want to see her end up with Cal. I hate him. Mare should end up with Maven and if that's not possible I'll make an exception for Kilorn.

Yesss I agree! My first choice will be Maven, but if not, anyone but Cal I don't really like him.. :/

Mare ending up with Kilorn would be interesting. But I doubt that would happen. I just don't want her to end up with Cal.

Bianca wrote: "Me to I just dont want to see her end up with Cal. I hate him. Mare should end up with Maven and if that's not possible I'll make an exception for Kilorn."

I second to that!!!!!

Yaj wrote: "Mare ending up with Kilorn would be interesting. But I doubt that would happen. I just don't want her to end up with Cal."

Yeah I think it's way too cheesy for her to end up with Cal

Lol. How would it be cheesy for her to end up with cal? Because he's good? I'd rather take a good honorable prince anyday lol

Mare has already fallen for Cal and if their love story were to continue for me it would be a bit boring and something readers already know is coming. However if there is a twist in the story and Mare could somehow change Marven then this process and the actual development of their relationship would be interesting. I would like to experience this turn of events because currently Marven is at a point where it seems as if all is lost.This is just how I look at it.I always think someone can change for the better.

Mare is currently out of love with Cal, and at the end of RQ, cal is only uniting forces with Mare because he shares the same goal with her. Their love was shattered by conscious betrayal, and would take a Herculean effort from both sides to learn to trust each other again. I think there is something very relevant about the moral of this relationship: trust is a foundation that love should always rest on. As for Maven and Mare, he's become a murderous tyrant who not only betrayed Mare, but also made his brother kill their father. Then he proceeded to torture mare and cal by not killing them cleanly, but making a spectacle out of their execution in the arena with the participation of other silvers. I just don't think someone who has wronged her so deeply could be worthy of her.

Well I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Lol yup. I trust ms Aveyard would be able to make us all happy :))

Yeah well this series and the world building is so fantastic that no matter who Mare ends up with( even Kilorn) I will still be pleased:-)

I haven't finished reading the book yet really, but I think I like Maven more than Cal. I'm currently on page 186. Maybe it's because she's around Maven a little more than Cal, but something tells me that she can't trust Maven (:O) I might still like him even if he does betray Mare in some sort of way.

EDIT: Okay, finished reading the book. This is so weird but...I think I like Maven even more (ikr).

Well enjoy reading!

Menna wrote: "ok so this might sound weird but def maven the kid has great potential to become so much more as a character and i think he'll surprise us all in the next book (call me crazy but i actually think m..."

I don't think your crazy. I honestly still like Maven too and think that he has a better chance of staying with Mare. He broke my heart at the end of the book but I still love him.

Am i the only one that thinks it weird how Maven acted in the end of the book? It was like he really didn't want to kill all those people that he cared about. Even towards the end he seemed to have really deep feelings towards Mare. It felt like he was being controlled by someone else. Call me crazy but I really do think that he still had feelings Mare.

You are right @JESSY....it was this feeling... like his mother manipulated him...

I totally agree with Jessy and Elisa!

I wish Elara was manipulating Maven. I honestly do. I just didn't see any signs of it when I was reading. I could see that Elara might have manipulated him into killing his father, but in the arena, Maven kept leaning closer, trying to see the death. He didn't look away, like someone who cared even a little bit would have. He kept staring at them as if he was enjoying it, and that, for me, ruined my love of Maven. Honestly. If the author sends him on a redemption curve… then great. I'd love to have him back again. But for now, I can only despise him for so enjoying the pain of two people who felt nothing but love for him. In my eyes, that's like him kicking a puppy, and it is so despicable. Cal I'm neutral on, and leaning more towards currently just because Maven is so far off the charts I don't see how he could ever get back again.

I honestly don't think Cal gets Mare and the things that she wants. That was the reason why I fell in love with Maven in the first place. He understood what she wanted and accepted it. That of course was until he betrayed her. He totally broke my heart there...yet I still want him with Mare I think that he could really be great by her side.

Jessy wrote: "I honestly don't think Cal gets Mare and the things that she wants. That was the reason why I fell in love with Maven in the first place. He understood what she wanted and accepted it. That of cour..."

I also think there is room for Marven to change....

Jessy wrote: "Am i the only one that thinks it weird how Maven acted in the end of the book? It was like he really didn't want to kill all those people that he cared about. Even towards the end he seemed to have..."
I also felt that someone else is controlling Marven and it was Elara forcing him to do bad things.He does have feelings for Mare because he was jealous of Cal.I think we will find out more about Marven in the sequuel.

I didn't think about it before, but I agree with the "Maven being controlled by someone else" thing. I hope that's what's happening instead of Maven being a huge crap face!

I also didn't see any signs of Maven being manipulated. But I hope that he has a reason on why he's acting like that. The old Maven is still in there. I hope that he is.

Cal!! He may be the merciless soldier, but he has his heart for Mare. I doubt if Maven has ever loved Mare...

I agree with Lara completely.
How I wish Elara was manipulating him. But it would have been much more believable that he was being completely controlled if he suddenly turned into this perfectly cold and cruel tyrant with no trace of remorse. The scene at the prison reinforces the idea that he was not being manipulated. We see vestiges of his former self (no matter how little it was shown), as if he was pained by doing things to them but I think that's because he was in-character for so long that some of his good guy act remained intact. Actually, I think Maven does have a good side, but his cruel side far outweighs it. He has a large sense of purpose and to achieve that purpose, he doesn't care about whose lives he will kill. I think there was hate brewing in his being far too long that it became something inseparable from him. He was willing to, and even enjoyed torturing Cal and Mare for his pride and entertainment. It's sick. It's despicable. It serves no purpose other than to satisfy his pathetic pride.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Maven. I was rooting for him so much. I adored how sweet and protective he was. But no matter how much of it was real (if it was even real at all) do not forget in the end he was willing to humiliate, torture, and kill Mare. He had no reason to do Cal and Mare (and the rest of the people he heartlessly injured) harm other than the fact that they are in his way of being the "murderous tyrant (as Cookie mentioned)". What if Mare wasn't able to summon her powers fast enough? What if it never hit Arven? What if the Scarlet Guard weren't fast enough? Maven didn't know that those events will happen. He clearly expected them to be killed.

Anyway Maven is too far gone, I can't even consider him a possible love interest anymore. How can his actions ever be redeemed (aside from sacrificing a great part of himself which I find cliche)? Perhaps if he does change for the better I might welcome him but the damage he has done is far too great. Can you live being with a person who tried to humiliate you and kill you in cold blood? He can be a friend again maybe, but I don't think you can give out your heart to them.

I didn't really like Cal, but at least he was only doing his best the way he knows how. He, unlike Maven, had good intentions. I'm not keen on them getting together. They might find a way to forge back the trust they broke but I think romance is an unlikely option for a time.

The one I'm kind of rooting for is Kilorn, if anything. He was practically nonexistent in the course of the book but he had so much potential, which I hope will be tapped on next book. He's the only one Mare never stopped caring for and it was implied she has/had romantic feelings for him (you know the bit about children running with Kilorn's last name).

Mare has to end up with Maven. Cal reminds me of Adam and Maven reminds me of Warner from Shatter Me. Maven will redeem himself (i hope)! Everyone set sail on the Marven Ship!

Amy wrote: "Mare has to end up with Maven. Cal reminds me of Adam and Maven reminds me of Warner from Shatter Me. Maven will redeem himself (i hope)! Everyone set sail on the Marven Ship!"

Team Marven!!!!!!!:D ;O

Nila wrote: "I agree with Lara completely.
How I wish Elara was manipulating him. But it would have been much more believable that he was being completely controlled if he suddenly turned into this perfectly c..."

Yes! Exactly! Thank you!!!

I can totally see the resemblance with Warner and maven, but if you truly think about the stories, you realize that there are MANY huge differences between maven and Warner

My sentiments exactly Aurianna. Warner pretends he was bad, but turns out to be a good person. Maven pretends he was good, but revealed himself to be a morally corrupt person in the end.

Finally someone understands! People don't dig deeper into characters, they sort of just look at what's on the outside. You say my exact point, thank you

When i read the book and was comparing Marven to Warner, I taught of that point to.This is the sole reason why I think Mare and Marven will not end up together. He will continue to change for the worse whereas Warner changed to become a better person.However I do not know which direction Aveyard will take the series ( still hoping that Marven is a better person deep down than what he has become)

I know what it's like to fall for the bad guy, trust me. You can't choose who you get emotionally attached to XD Aveyard does know what is best and I hope that in the end, Mare is truly happy and comes to terms with what she chooses

Yeah I hope so to and no matter who she chooses, I know I will still love this series.