SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Tcadams18 wrote: "Currently I'm reading Johannes Cabal the Necromancer. I am loving this book. Very entertaining."

I giggled like mad when I read that book.

I highly recommend the sequel, Johannes Cabal the Detective as well, it's just as entertaining.

Me? All my May reading plans have been hijacked! I'll even tell you who did it. It was Sharon Leeand Steve Miller. They've been releasing their series of chapbooks as ebooks for Kindle and Nook, and I've been buying each one as it comes out. I have some already, but this looks to be my chance to finally have (and read) a complete set. So I have been lost in the Liaden Universe, and it looks like I'll be there for a bit yet. Please do not send rescuers! I'm having too good a time here!

Suz wrote: "Tcadams18 wrote: "Currently I'm reading Johannes Cabal the Necromancer. I am loving this book. Very entertaining."

I giggled like mad when I read that book.

I highly recommend th..."

I just finished the first today. I'll definitely be picking up the second soon.

Rereading Curse of Chalion because my brain died and leaked out of my ears, also, I got tired of unending classics.

My package from the States arrived! I am now reading Doc: A Novel.

Squee!

I just started The Name of the Wind, I hear its good, what do you guys think

Stephen wrote: "I just started The Name of the Wind, I hear its good, what do you guys think"

Just finished that one! I really liked it! It kept me hooked.

The Name of the Wind is very good.

I finished Journey to the Centre of the Earth. Obviously, some of the science is way out-dated, but it was a pretty good book. I like that it was much more restrained than that movie they made a few years ago.

Next up is Zoo City by Lauren Beukes.

I'm reading The Door into Summer and continuing to put off Boneshaker.

John wrote: "continuing to put off Boneshaker."

I'll be honest, I wasn't a fan.

Read Eona: The Last Dragoneye today.

Meh.

And now to do an eenie-meenie-mynie-mo to figure out what to read next...

Denae wrote: "John wrote: "continuing to put off Boneshaker."

I'll be honest, I wasn't a fan."

Me, either. A book with zombies in it shouldn't have so many dull spots.

John wrote: "I'm reading The Door into Summer and continuing to put off Boneshaker."

I wasn't happy with it, for a book claiming a historical setting, it was remarkably bland and did a rotten job establishing and maintaining any believability that we were in Civil War America. (Characters speaking in a very modern voice, no real descriptions of the historical city, etc.)

Uh oh, sounds like I might be in for a rough read. I'm going to start reading it today.

Ala wrote: "Read Eona: The Last Dragoneye today.

Meh.

And now to do an eenie-meenie-mynie-mo to figure out what to read next..."

Yeah. I sort of liked Eon better than Eona. I didn't like the direction she took the story. I still enjoyed the writing, though. It was one of those books I didn't really know how to rate, 'cause I both sort of enjoyed it and didn't like it at the same time.


And I also was bored with Boneshaker.

I'm jealous, Genia.

I'm reading Sovay and enjoying it a lot. Yesterday I finished Feed by M.T. Anderson (this is the sf Feed vs. the zombie Feed) and I loved it until the end, where I wish the MC had acted differently.

Colleen ~blackrose~ wrote: "Yeah. I sort of liked Eon better than Eona. I didn't like the direction she took the story. I still enjoyed the writing, though. It was one of those books I didn't really know how to rate, 'cause I both sort of enjoyed it and didn't like it at the same time. "

The direction she took the story in was just awful. The love triangle was laughable. Sethon was just a cardboard cutout bad guy.

It was all so mediocre. It shouldn't have been, but it was.

I agree. The love triangle was my biggest issue with it, especially considering the parties involved, and I just kept thinking that she could've done so much more with the culture and the fights and the backstory, and instead most of the time was focused to that.

My other issues were (view spoiler)[the continuation of the constant secrets. I hate it when issues in books could be so easily resolved if they would just effing talk to one another. Also, I was disappointed that a lot of it revolved around Eona being unable to use her power. I was like - didn't we tread this ground in the first book? (hide spoiler)]

All-in-all I had such high hopes after the first one, and it was pretty disappointing. (I mean, the first book was far from perfect, but I thought it set up the potential for a kick-ass conclusion, and it just flopped.)

Nicki - I thought the writing was still good. Even though I kept hating the direction it was going, I still didn't want to stop reading it. That's what I mean by how I enjoyed it and disliked it at the same time. (I think the a dirty little part of me secretly enjoyed the love triangle, while being simultaneously disgusted with it.

I have problems... )

Your spoiler is dead on, Colleen. I was thinking the same thing too.

And sorry Nicki. For what it's worth, ymmv?

Julia wrote: "I'm jealous, Genia."

You should be. It's shaping up to be very good.

Genia wrote: You should be. It's shaping up to be very good.

I've never known a Mary Doria Russell book to not be, Genia. And I've read them all so far.

Nicki wrote: "Possibly -- my tastes usually seem to run opposite to everyone else's. ;) Love triangles are a real pet peeve, though."

My tastes seem to be opposite of Colleens on a lot of books. The fact we tend to agree with this one has me thinking it really is that bad or I've lost my mojo and my taste in books is off. :P

Julia wrote: "Genia wrote: You should be. It's shaping up to be very good.

I've never known a Mary Doria Russell book to not be, Genia. And I've read them all so far."

Dreamers of the Day. I was so disappointed I could cry - I practically did.

But aside from that? Definitely.

Ala - Well, even though we both disliked it I think you disliked it more, if that's any consolation. *dramatic eye roll*

Oh dear, ridiculous love triangle? I was kind of hoping that Eona would be better, but if that's in there... D:

Nicki, I've read The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell, and I thought it was OK to good, but not what I was expecting at all.

Oddly enough, when I read it a few years back, I was in the midst of a slump, and my mom went to a bookstore to try to find something I'd like. The clerk asked her what kind of books I like, and the only thing my mom could think of off the top of her head was "Stephen King" and "Harry Potter", right? So this clerk recommended that I read The Sparrow. Mom bought it and I read it, and I can only assume that the clerk thought that, based on my reading habits, I was possessed by the devil.

The Sparrow is very religiously flavored, but it is sci-fi and a bit dense, and somewhat brutal, but very interesting for all that. I just can't claim it's a favorite or anything. It's worth a read though, I'd say. :) I haven't read the sequel, Children of God though.

Or perhaps A Thread of Grace? But that's HF. I do have that one on my TBR.

Valerie wrote: "Oh dear, ridiculous love triangle? I was kind of hoping that Eona would be better, but if that's in there... D:"

Yeah... tres disappointing. And the more I talk about it, the more angry and annoyed I get with it. Heh.


So...

I am currently reading Mortal Coil by Derek Landy, book 5 in the Skulduggery Pleasant series, which is a fun, action-packed, but surprisingly dark MG series which I've been blowing through this week.

The writing is good - lots of wry humor and little quirky bits, the ante keeps being upped and I'm dying to know how everything turns out. The only negative, which I realized this morning, is that there's no real emotional connection to the characters. I mean, I like the characters, but I don't feel like I'm really there with them, in their heads or whatever.

It's religiously flavoured only in the same sense that Solaris is religiously flavoured. It deals with the Big Questions religion tends to put before people, but it's not religious literature. Of course this is one of my absolute favourite books, so I am biased. I grant it may not be for King and Rowling fans. It's sci-fi for people who don't like reading sci-fi because it is 'genre'.

I personally think A Thread of Grace is far better than Children of God, but yes, it's not sci-fi.

Genia wrote: "It's religiously flavoured only in the same sense that Solaris is religiously flavoured. It deals with the Big Questions religion tends to put before people, but it's not religious lit..."

I meant "religiously flavored" as the main character is a Jesuit priest, a vocation that was specifically desired for the mission in the book. There is a distinct religious tone and feel to the book because of that. That's not a bad thing, but it is there.

Solaris may have a religious flavor for those who choose to see it, but I felt it was simply a philosophical sci-fi book. *shrug*

My mention of Harry Potter and Stephen King was simply an amusing anecdote. I read a lot of different types of books - I'll give anything a try, really. I'm not a genre reader. I liked The Sparrow, but it wasn't a favorite. :)

No, Nicki... I didn't feel like The Sparrow was preachy at all. :)

Genia wrote: "It's sci-fi for people who don't like reading sci-fi because it is 'genre'."

Is there any good sci-fi for people who don't like reading sci-fi 'cause it's boring?

What's "MG"?

Mid-grade.

Ala wrote: "What's "MG"?"

Middle grade. It's even worse than YA to all you adult type snobs. ;)

LOL

Becky: Solaris is stuffed with religious themes, they're not that far under the surface, either... But, yes, I suppose I see your point. Though just having a Jesuit as a main character doesn't make it a religious book in my mind. Like in historical fiction. Really, I always called Russell "historical fiction set in the future".

Coleen: Depends on what other things they do read.

Pfft, I was snobby about the blurb for Eon, not that it was YA.

I'm a blurb Snob, get it right.

Genia - Fair enough. I was just being facetious anyway. ;)


Ala - So sorry... It really was a terrible blurb, though. I can't fault you for that one.

Genia wrote: "Becky: Solaris is stuffed with religious themes, they're not that far under the surface, either... But, yes, I suppose I see your point. Though just having a Jesuit as a main character doesn't make..."

So is Narnia... But those who aren't looking for those themes aren't likely to find them. One can read it as fantasy or religious allegory, depending on their perspective.

The Sparrow is different from that type of story. Again... not a bad thing. Just a fact.

The Sparrow is one of my favorite books. I might recommend it to readers who like to read, period. And readers who are looking for a very good read to get them out of a slump.

Many of the main characters are Jesuits. I liked that about it a lot. I like reading religious sf. What books were you scarred by, Nicki?

I also quite enjoyed A Thread of Grace. I learned a lot from it, as I learned from The Sparrow, as well. While it's science fiction, they also tell the reader about Jesuits' experiences as explorers.

Colleen ~blackrose~ wrote: "Ala - So sorry... It really was a terrible blurb, though. I can't fault you for that one."

I think when it comes time for July SciFi nominations, I'm going to require people to actually include a blurb that doesn't suck in the nomination, or it won't count.

Some of the blurbs they have on GR just aren't very good.



Also, it seems I have The Sparrow on my TBR list already, and no idea when/why I added it. But this conversation has me intrigued enough I'll probably pick it up soonish to read this weekend.

You should, Ala. I'd be interested to see what you think of it. :)

Oh Nicki, I'm sorry. Yeah, I avoid OSC a lot.

I like Octavia E. Butler's invented religions in Parable of the Sower and Parable of the Talents, to name two. They are also dystopian, so not for everyone. And the religion is one created by a child, so, not real sophisticated...

Eona: The Last Dragoneye had a love triangle? Glad I stopped with the first books then. Eon: Dragoneye Reborn had promise, but just didn't live up to it.

With OSC, you can read Ender's Game and skip pretty much everything else he's written. That's what I've done.

Lost Boys is one of my least favorite books. I absolutely loathed it.

See, this is an analysis I couldn't agree with.

Narnia was written with a purpose to be a Christian allegory. The Sparrow was written with a mind to explore such questions as: why do bad things happen to good people?

Narnia is downright, outright, don't-doubt-it, Christian Fantasy. The Sparrow is not Christian. Hell, the writer's a convert to Judaism. She writes Jesuits as her main characters in the same way Walter M. Miller writes about monks in his A Canticle for Leibowitz (in fact, I know Russell was inspired by that book). Are you saying that's religious SF as well?

It seems funny to me to say this is more of a religious book than Narnia, considering Lewis's purpose, the way he'd written his books, and his entire world setup.

Nicki, I am not sure how it is remotely possible to construe The Sparrow as preachy, since it has no real point to preach. It's all one big question, so I suppose if you find the 'big questions' preachy, you won't enjoy it. I felt Children of God was a touch too definitive - to its vast detriment - but The Sparrow sins, if anything, with too much ambiguity, not too much certainty.

Per the Wiki article on Narnia:

An adult convert to Christianity, Lewis had previously authored a number of works on Christian apologetics and other fiction with Christian themes. The character Aslan is seen by many as a fictionalized version of Christ.[46] Lewis did not initially plan to incorporate Christian theological concepts into his Narnia stories. Lewis maintained that the Narnia books were not allegorical, preferring to term their Christian aspects a "supposition".

Furthermore, when I first read 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe', back when I was still a good Catholic girl, I had no idea they were generally held to be regarded as Christian allegory. I just saw it as a fun fantasy story, and didn't think "Oh, Aslan's clearly a parallel for Christ", or any such thing.

And watching the movies as an adult I found myself saying "I don't really get how these are meant to be these heavy handed Christian allegories."

So, yeah, I would say that you can read Narnia without it being obviously, downright, outright, no-doubt-about it Christian Fantasy.

I've never read The Sparrow, so I can't comment on that. I will, however, say that since what one person finds obviously Christian another doesn't, it's equally possible for someone to find something preachy, even though someone else doesn't. It doesn't make that person wrong, it just means they have different perspectives.

Genia wrote: "See, this is an analysis I couldn't agree with.

Narnia was written with a purpose to be a Christian allegory. "

Genia, my saying that The Sparrow has a "religious flavor" isn't a slight or a criticism. It's an observation based on fact. One can tell that there is a religious flavor from reading the blurb on Goodreads alone. Here's a line from it: "The Jesuit scientists went to learn, not to proselytize. They went so that they might come to know and love God’s other children. They went for the reason Jesuits have always gone to the furthest frontiers of human exploration. They went ad majorem Dei gloriam: for the greater glory of God." Obviously, religion is a large and important part of the story.

Your argument regarding Narnia seems to me to be based on intent, which has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Whether Lewis intended Narnia to be allegory or not (and I don't know), it is still possible that a reader may not recognize it. Unless someone approaches the book with the knowledge of its being allegorical, or with an awareness to find additional meaning in what they read or see, etc, it is possible to miss the underlying meaning, regardless of the author's intent or how blatant its meaning may seem.

Allegories are dependent on interpretation and perception. A book in which religion is introduced into the story directly, which shapes and molds and identifies the characters and their beliefs and actions is not the same thing.

I'm not saying one is "more" religious than another. What I AM saying is that they are different types of books which contain religious references.

I did not, nor did I see anyone else, claim that The Sparrow was preachy. In fact, in message 136, I distinctly said that I did not think that it was.

Reading Red Mars right now.