Katelyn’s Comments (group member since Jan 07, 2016)

Katelyn’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

Gayle wrote: "That's a lot! Thanks for sharing. Did you take Women's Studies classes?"

Yes! I took graduate level classes in women's history and gender theory while pursuing my master's. My degree is in musicology, and when I pursue my PhD, I'll continue that track with a focus on women, gender, and sexuality.

Erin wrote: "Personally, as a white, heterosexual, and cisgendered woman, I don't feel it's enough to simply "allow" marginalized women to have a voice. I will actively encourage it."

^Exactly, this!

I am a cisgendered woman in a long-term heterosexual "flexible" relationship. I choose not to identify my sexuality. I find myself attracted to others regardless of gender, but only really figured this out for myself after having entered into a many-years-long (and very happy!) relationship. Luckily, my partner and I are both entirely supportive of each other and basically understand these things in all the same ways, so I therefore term our relationship flexible referring both to sexuality and monogamy.

I do not identify as bisexual because it feels disingenuous to my experience as someone who is in a long-term heterosexual relationship. I recognize my own privilege as a result of these circumstances, and therefore identifying as a member of the LGBT community doesn't feel appropriate (not that those who identify as bisexual but are in het-relationships should feel that way—all the power to you!).

Because of all this, and for many other reasons as well, the goals I envision for the feminist movement include the destruction of sexual and gender binaries. A more fluid understanding of gender and sexuality would go a long way in eradicating gender discrimination.

Great topic!!

-I use social media as a tool to promote factual media sources about feminist topics.
-I challenge the opinions of those who would (un)knowingly oppress women.
-I support my friends in their choices and actions, and come to their defense when needed.
-I have performed in benefit concerts for causes such as violence against LGBT folks in Uganda, and I also performed as part of a festival dedicated to women in music.
-Last year, I walked in a mostly student protest march in Baltimore in solidarity with the black community, in memory of Freddie Gray and against excessive use of force by police officers. I believe that in working with other activist groups with similar goals (equality), even if they are not devoted strictly to feminism, we can achieve more for everyone.
-I hope to focus on women, gender, and sexuality when I pursue my Ph.D.
-I've worked hard throughout my time as a student to rise into leadership positions within organizations (mostly unrelated to feminism), and used that privilege to help other women.

Beyond that, I'm sorry to say that I have not had the opportunity to do a lot of activism, but I hope to do more as opportunities arise. Unfortunately, my schedule generally doesn't allow me to do organizing myself, and I just moved to a new city a few months ago and am still learning the ropes, so I definitely need to find ways to get involved.

I'm 24 and from the United States.

James wrote: "Daniel wrote: "Men can support The feminist movement, The problem is when mens steal female protagonism. we don't pass for The same Thing, mens are not opress, we (mens) are The cause of The opress..."

Hm, I didn't read his comment as sucking up necessarily. I think his final point about male privilege is a good and important one. He is right in that systemically, women are oppressed by patriarchy. While men also suffer under patriarchy in a variety of ways, women are disproportionately affected. While it is good to see people as individuals as you suggest, we must also acknowledge the system that has perpetuated the gender equality problem.

Also, it looks like Daniel's first language isn't English. I think we need to remain open-minded because language barriers can make it difficult to fully understand, and try not to jump to conclusions about others' comments.

Okay I have some more time now to talk about my own thoughts here!

I always try to set goals for my reading, either based on synopses, reviews, or recommendations of the book in question. If there are certain things that critics have pointed out, positive or negative, I keep an eye out for them.

Some questions I always keep in mind: What is this author's background and what kind of experiences would she identify with? Is the author (or narrator, or both) trustworthy in her account of events or analyses? Does the author make assumptions within the book about what will be relatable to readers, for example, does she references universal experiences or generalities as if they apply to everyone?

I also like to look for themes that arise that perhaps were not intended by the author. How does this happen? What does it mean that an author's ideas create new ones from nothing?

I tend to do a lot of highlighting, underlining, and margin notes. I like to have a record of my thoughts, and it's interesting when I reread a book to see what I was thinking the last time I read, and add to those if my ideas have developed or changed. It's also fun to pass along marked-up books to friends, and read other people's notes as you go :) It creates a dialogue within the book itself for posterity.

With feminist texts, I am always trying to remain critical, because the stakes (for me, at least) are so high. I keep an eye out for intersectionality (or lack thereof) and hidden patriarchy.

Specifically for Steinem's My Life on the Road, I'm approaching it with a couple of ideas in mind:
1. What does it mean for a woman to travel, often alone, all over the world? How might the same narrative(s) told from a man's point of view differ?
2. Gloria Steinem has sometimes been criticized by other feminists for failing to be intersectional. Does this book challenge that perception, add to it, or something in between?

I hope some of these ideas help other in their reading, and I really hope I get some responses on this because I'd love to hear about everyone else's considerations and rituals!

James wrote: "Just letting women know that men have problems too...I mean it's not about who has more but, it would be nice if women could care about men and boys lots in life a little more. I mean "HeForShe" Me..."

We do know and feminism works to solve those problems as well! Many of those statistics you list would be less extreme if gender role stereotypes were eliminated, and if hiring practices and pay were more equitable to women and other minorities.

The reason women spend more money (according to your statistic) is because gender roles make them responsible for the household, which include the expenses for her, her children, and her husband, plus any other household upkeep.

Women tend to get custody because they are labeled as the caregivers due to their gender.

You complain that money is spent on women who do not earn it or do pay the taxes. The reason social services are in place to help women more than men is because they have less earning potential and fewer job opportunities. Women and children make up a majority percentage of those in poverty. They need those social services, and governments tax the population in general because they need to help the least fortunate (regardless of gender). It just so happens that men on average tend to make more money, therefore they need the services less and pay more out in taxes.

I could go on to explain how most of these statistics reflect the gender role stereotypes and binaries that feminism seeks to eliminate. But I am also skeptical of some of these statistics, as they contradict many of the statistics that I have read in the past.

Feminism also focuses on issues such as problematic standards of masculinity, childcare inequity, sexual assault in prisons, male victims of sexual assault, etc., all of which are important for men.

If you don't want to be a part of the feminist movement, that is your prerogative. HeForShe exists as an open invitation to those that want to stand with us.

D wrote: "I find it easier to have conversations when I realize that I am planting seeds in people's minds. I try to stay clear of actions that keep the patriarchy going--from viewing pornographic material t..."

I really like what you wrote about country music! I study musicology and have written about country music's depictions of women and violence. It is a varied genre of music, and sometimes the sexist popular music drowns out the more positive depictions of women there there are. I highly recommend Nadine Hubbs's book Rednecks, Queers, and Country Music that came out in 2014. It mostly talks about queer representation, but of course there is plenty of overlap with women's issues, and all can be considered under the umbrella of feminism. It's an academic text, but if that turns you off at all, I'll just let you know that it's not as dense as a lot of other academic texts.

Also, I just wanted to point to D's comment as an example of how feminism is a collaboration between people with an infinite number of experiences and opinions. I think there are examples of pornography that are operating at odds with patriarchy, and I think women can practice sexual freedom without contributing to patriarchy, but there are many feminists who find these things problematic to the goals of the movement. Even with these differing views, the most important thing is that we work both together and individually to achieve our ends!

In addition to what everyone else said about how important it is for men to be involved in feminism, I also want to point out that feminism helps men as well as women! There are a lot of issues that men faced related to gender discrimination, even if women face it more frequently. Some of these issues include child custody, sexual assault, expectations of masculinity, etc.

There's more about this here:
What about men?

(edit: the link did not copy properly, fixed!)

In another thread, I suggested that as titles are selected, if there are some people who have already read that book, it would be useful for them to suggest "things to consider" for those of us who are reading for the first time. Since this first book is a relatively new release, there probably aren't many folks who have read it already, so I thought it would be good to discuss this in general.

When preparing to read and then while reading, what are some things that you like to consider? What are your goals (probably differs by genre)? What kind of highlights or notes do you make? How do you decide what to focus on as you read? How do you approach feminist texts differently? Are there particular feminist issues you like to look for?

I'll make my response in an additional post in order to keep these questions as the main focus, and not my specific opinions! So interested to hear how the rest of you approach your reading!

This is so important! Being a feminist in the real world can be an enormous challenge. One of the reasons that so many of us struggles to stand up for these beliefs is because so many cultures condition us to speak up less than men and defer to their opinions.

For example, studies of university students have shown that in a classroom seminar setting, men feel comfortable contributing to discussion when they are 20% sure of what they are saying. Women on average feel like they need to be 80% sure.

The problem persists because when norms are in place, when they are challenged, it feels like tipping the scale the other way rather than equality. For example, studies show that when a crowd is 50/50 white and black men, white men, when asked what percentage of black men they see, on average they think it is much higher. Because they are used to white men being over-represented, they are unable to see equal numbers. They only see fewer of themselves than they did before.

I like to back up my opinions with facts. I've found that the majority of people who oppose feminism simply do not understand what it is or what its goals are (some people genuinely do not think women and other minority groups deserve equality, and they are a lot harder to deal with). Many of them are misinformed with the same misinformation, so it's easy to learn a few key concepts and statistics that allow you to combat those ideas.

That being said, it's also totally okay to prefer avoiding confrontation. There are ways to practice feminism that don't involve educating others or arguing with anti-feminists. Looking out for your fellow woman, participating in your country's political process whenever possible and keeping yourself informed, and when you find yourself in a position of power, find ways to help women and other minority groups, and avoiding competition with other women. So many times there is a mentality of: there are only so many open spots for women at the top, if I want to be one of them, I need to beat all the other women. It doesn't have to be like that! Just being a good person and helping others is a way to maintain confidence when practicing your feminism. And your feminism is YOURS. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise!

Thanks, Mihaela! I did know about the other thread, but I meant this less to be about generally cleaning the threads (although I did mention that) and more about how to actually organize the end-of-the-month book discussion, specifically, in a way that makes it possible for people to conduct constructive dialogues and have their thoughts heard rather than getting lost in a sea of posts. Organization is definitely a part of that, but I think the way that we conceive our discussion topics on the monthly books is a different issue. And, I think, of utmost importance, since it is the main reason that we are all here!

Leanne wrote: "I feel like I can't keep up!"

Exactly why I wanted to write this post!


Lara Amber wrote: "I'd like a section on books for younger readers. My assumption is that most group members are adults, but there may be some people who won't find all material accessible because of their age (or me..."

I think you should go ahead and start your own topic with that in mind! I think it's a great idea.

Kandarp wrote: "Katelyn wrote: "If I may, I believe the reason the specific thread that you mention became heated is because a survivor of domestic violence was repeatedly accused of being an "idiot" along with al..."

I'm glad we're on the same page, then :) I certainly never meant to accuse you of anything, most of my words were directed at him. Things sometimes get confused over the internet, and so I'm glad you raised the points you did in the original post, because we all need to make an effort to make our points clearly and calmly to one another.

If I may, I believe the reason the specific thread that you mention became heated is because a survivor of domestic violence was repeatedly accused of being an "idiot" along with all victims, and some of us came to her defense while others claimed that such an opinion is valid.

Kandarp, you are absolutely right, we must respect others' opinions and listen to everyone's voices. But when one person uses that as free reign to attack another person, we cannot dismiss it simply as an opinion being shared. It is harmful and disrespectful, and should not be tolerated. I cannot stop myself from condemning that kind of behavior and language, and if one person can attack another on the basis of sharing their opinion, I believe that extends to someone who wishes to tell them that it is inappropriate and disrespectful.

By the way, that thread has since turned back into a cordial and productive conversation!

Kandarp, based on your comments, I can tell that you have good intentions, and I admire your open-mindedness. The main issue I have with this thread is with that there has been repeated refusal to engage with substantiated points brought by people, followed by personal attacks (not necessarily from you). You tried to encourage calm and respect, and that's important, but unfortunately, when an argument arises between a victim and someone who refuses to hear the circumstances of her/his experience, and then slings insults, I feel it is my duty to support her. It is no longer about opinions if someone is being blatantly disrespectful. While everyone deserves a voice, and it is wrong to claim that one person's thoughts are more or less valid (assuming we are not discussing proven facts), I believe it is absolutely wrong to insult someone else, and that is why I said so in my last comment.

I am glad there have been more positive responses since the last time I checked in.

Savannah, thanks for sharing those bullet points. They're really stated clearly and concisely.

I don't think everyone's opinions are valid here, and not everyone is right or wrong. That fact of the matter is that until a comprehensive biography of Erin's life is published for you all to read, you cannot possibly discuss her experiences in the way you have been doing without coming across as incredibly disrespectful. She chose to use her experience as a means to give input into the question posed by the OP. She was met with derision and refusal to consider others' points of view. I don't think this is the community envisioned by Emma, or any of us who have joined.

Hi all!

Here is a link to an interview that Gloria Steinem did with Terry Gross on NPR's Fresh Air. I listened to it a couple of months ago and just remembered it. I think if you have the time, it might be a great way to prepare for reading the book and/or subsequent discussions!

Enjoy!

At 81, Feminist Gloria Steinem Finds Herself Free Of The 'Demands Of Gender'

Kandarp wrote: "Katelyn facts and figures become useless in real life situation. As I said before, there are different circumstances and we need to handle them differently"

Right. And Erin is trying to explain to you how all of these situations are different, and yet the major response she is getting to that is "women who stay are idiots" and "stand up for yourself"

Facts and figures are incredibly useful. If getting a gun is more dangerous to a woman because it is more likely to be used against her than as defense, then knowing that fact might prevent her death. That is a real life situation.

Sascha wrote: "Hey Katelyn, nice to meet you! :)

I would say: yes and no. Of course there are some women who have internalized patriarchy and even sexism. And it would really help if these women would develop a ..."

I have read that reimagining of Harry Potter! Hermione is amazing, of course.

I definitely agree with everything you said. I didn't mean to suggest that men and women are coming from the same place in their confrontation of patriarchy, I just meant to point out that women are regularly complicit in the perpetuation of patriarchy as well, thought not in the same ways or to the same extent.

Nice to meet you, too! :)

Re: Guns: Having a Gun in the House Doesn't Make a Woman Safer
"Firearms have been touted as a great equalizer between the sexes. But in cases where self-defense matters most, women tend to find their own weapons turned against them."

It seems that there are a lot of opinions being put forth here. But opinions don't prove anything. So I'm just going to link to factual, well-researched, and cited articles when a false claim is made.