Ancient & Medieval Historical Fiction discussion

Terri wrote: "Yes, but no 'dislike' button. I wouldn't want that."

I'm on a site that has both. You can disable the 'dislike' button (so that you can't see it) and I did so. It makes for much more peaceable reading.

Diana wrote: "@Isis - You must understand: I don't pester experts, and if I run into problems with research I go through channels. We all have other things to do than get bugged on our area of expertise by some..."

Ah, it makes a lot more sense now. Yes, the demise of the New Kingdom in the 20th dynasty is rather tangled. And Pharaonic Egypt has the delightful trait of surviving rather fragmentarily, so that we in the modern day have quite a task on our hands figuring out what was going on. Sometimes that gaps are so big that as a writer you've just got to make a definitive choice, for the sake of the story. I think it's got legs though.

Dawn wrote: "Is anyone else doing the GR's reading challenge?? I challenged myself to over twice what I read last year and that seems to have inspired me to read so much that I am very close to finishing my cha..."

I am. I kept my number the same as last year and am ahead by about 10 books so I'm good to go. :)

Roses, anyone?
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingN...

The Wars of the Roses are such fodder for novelists, good and bad, I find myself wondering if a book will arise from this.

I saw that programme on tv ages ago. I don't credit their evidence. Their argument was based around the idea that Edward IV was illegitimate - but looking at the evidence, I am satisfied that there is strong evidence that he was legitimate, and the evidence that he was illegitimate appears shaky and unreliable to me.

Isis wrote: "the evidence that he was illegitimate appears shaky and unreliable to me..."

Such things always make me smile (cases for people being the rightful heirs to thrones). Conquest can effectively negate a claim to a throne, and these various claimants to any sort of title or status all have tenuous links.

In Dorothy Sayers' book
Have His Carcase


The victim was someone who thought he might have a claim to the Russian monarchy. (Sayers handled it well, with an eerie touch...)

In the discussion about the case, Peter Wimsey says, in essence, "Yes, I know a chap who thinks that if he can find a proof of marriage from four hundred years ago, thye King will step down and Parliament will approve hin as king. Such notions are, of course, nonsensical."

I agree. In this gentleman's case, the appearance of the Tudors, the Stuarts and the Houe of Hanover would appear to have effaced any possible claim to the throne, whether or not Edward IV was born on the wrong side of the blanket. And besides... Richard of York acknowledged him. Case closed.

(But one can smile...)

Indeed. :)

Mike Hastings always insisted he didn't want it and that he was an Australian Republican besides.

That's part of the article that made me smile. It seems there are a lot of people running about and making noise about things that leave those chiefly involved shaking their heads or sighing. It does afford amusement for the rest of us.

...on that note I am going to brew myself my third cup of tea. Strong, I think, with milk.

Tasha wrote: "in front by aboit 10 books.."

Haha. And when might you think of upping your challenge goal? :-)

Terri wrote: "Tasha wrote: "in front by aboit 10 books.."

Haha. And when might you think of upping your challenge goal? :-)"

Not sure I will as I like to see me ahead. ;) although, once I hit it,or maybe by the fall, we'll see.

It is nice to see ourselves getting ahead in life. :-)

That's what I'm thinking. ;)

I've never tracked my reading before, and didn't do the reading challenge last year. I started out too low, then got myself to a good spot. I think at 50 with 5 books ahead I'm happy. Like Tasha, I like to see myself beating the goal!

If I get behind, it just causes me stress. :)

I read 2-3 books a week unkess one is very long, but i usually average 100 books a year. I read pretty fast, and before anyone says something, I am retired, which gives me time to do whatever I want-no bosses-LOL.

I was aiming for 1 and a half a week myself but I think I might increase to 1 and 3/4 next year. :) Which is about 8 a month.

The problem I'm having with the GR's challenge is that it count all your books and I only want to count actual novels, not travel guides or coffee table books. So I have to keep increasing the challenge to compensate for all those books.

I thank goodness it counts coffee table books or I would be wayyyy behind my goal. hehe. :-)

Like Jerry, I had never tracked my reading before, although I did the challenge last year. I think I did 70.....maybe it was less. Anyway, I never realised I read so few books until I did the challenge.
I aim for one a week.

I haven't been reading a lot this year because I've been busy with other things involving word processing. The big revelation I had regarding my reading came when I joined Goodreads and began rating books I'd read. Wow! That's a lot! (Yes, others have 2,000 in their litings, but these are ones I've read and digested.

...and I'm still waiting for Killer of Men. I'm going to read tht if it kills me!

And I'll be there to egg you on to read it when you get it!

In regards to people with 2000 books in their GR bookshelves. I myself have still less than 1000 on my bookshelves even though I have been on GR for many years now.
I own many hundreds more books than I put on my Gr shelves, but like you Diana I only want to add books I can remember enough. I don't want to add all my personal bookcases worth of classics, for example, because I don't remember half of them enough to leave a review and a rating.

I never tracked my reading either until I found GRs. But I can tell you that my reading exploded since coming to GRs. No surprise there, I'm sure. ;)

Ha. No, no surprise at all!

I tracked my books before GR's on another website so I wasn't starting from scratch when I joined up. I wish I had been better at writing reviews because I often don't remember why I've rated books high or low. It's that TBR shelf that makes my book list look so big though and I don't want to forget about any of them so I'm just stuck with it. :)

I have a bunch of art books on my GR shelf. I went back and forth about including these, since art books are really books you "read" in the traditional sense. In the end I put them all up because I wanted an accurate picture of books in my collection.

For some strange reason, I never cataloged even a fraction of the RPG books I own. I haven't figured out why. Maybe I don't want to expose the total depths of my geekiness.

I think what bothers me a bit is now with e-books, so many are short stories, and a 35 page short will get rated as a book, the same as an 800 page tome.

I had someone say that anything over 100,000 words is too long in today's publishing world. Doing a little math, each printed page is between 250 and 275 pages, so all books are *cough* supposed to be between 363 and 400 pages, tops.

One woman was bragging about having written 10 books in a year. A 'book' for her was 67 pages. That is a short story.

I included my art books and all my comic books. I like having a complete list of everything I own.

I guess that explains some of the groups having rules about a book having at least 200 pages to be considered. Curious how a short story gets considered a book, I've personally only read short stories in a collection.
When you think about when and where most people read I guess anything over 100,000 words wouldn't be what they were looking for. I don't see alot of people reading 4" thick books at the beach.:) On the other hand the typical fantasy series are 600-800 pages books. I wonder if it depends on the genre of book and who the core audience is?

The woman who bragged about her ten books per year wrote erotica and sold on Kindle. (should have clarified).

Here's a guideline of fiction lengths:

http://www.fictionfactor.com/articles...

(Pretty interesting. A trilogy is preferable to a fat book...)

I could see that, most readers I know (as in the ones off-line) would be intimidated by one giant book. A trilogy would seem more approachable.
Considering the prevelance of online shopping and e-books, I wonder how much the issue of stocking books will be a concern for book size?

I included art books recently too. I also include all my cooking books.
Given a choice, I wouldn't want my cookbooks to count towards my challenge goal, but we don't have a choice.
Art books though, I am fine with them counting towards my goal. Like Jerry says, they are actually a read. Most art books have as much text as other non fiction offerings. Unless they are the art books with lots of images.

I know a few people that don't add their 'smalls' to their bookshelves. And by 'smalls' I mean books of low intellectual value. Lol. RPG books, smut romance. :-)
The people I know who hide their 'smalls' are hiding smut romance books. I know they have hundreds of them, but they don't go with the image they want to put forth so they don't add them to their bookshelves. I can understand this. Sometimes it doesn't reflevt who you are to add everything we have.
I, for one, don't add my Wolverine comic books. :-)

I have an art book (did I put it on my shelf? Must check...)
Maxfield Parrish

This was, as I recall, a doctoral thesis on Parrish. It is a fascinating read and has luscious photos.

I also reviewed Angela Fisher's wonderful book
Africa Adorned

For size and voluptuous lusciousness of images, it is an art/coffee table book. But the tet is fabulous. It's on my list.

I do have a shelf with the title 'suffered through' that I get rather pithy about. These are mostly 'classics' (read 'nasty, stupid books with no redeeming features and prominently featuring horrific pessimism') that I was made to read in High School and spout drivel about. (I usually made A's in those since I can spout drivel with the best of them. Just read my posts...)

I have a cookbook,
Charleston Receipts

Put together as a fundraiser by the Charleston SC (USA) Junior League. It is informative and some of the lore behind the recipes and the family reminiscences are wonderful.

Hm... Must put some of my cookbooks on there...

At last someone else has noticed! What is it about classics and their 'horrific pessimism'?? It is why I can't stand too many classics anymore. Seems a book has to be down beat to make it a Classic. Where did all the upbeat Classics go?

While I do read long books if I like the author or the topic, I prefer something more around the 350 page mark. I stopped reading epic fantasy because each new books seems to be longer than the last one. Even now that I'm dedicated to e-readers I still look for lower "page lengths." I like the feeling of moving from book to book. Give me a trilogy or series rather than a fat book any day of the week!

As for books of "low intellectual value", that's a good reason for leaving off all my RPG sourcebooks. I did read every one of them. But adding 100+ books on RPGs feels I'm like padding my numbers.

I am undecided on the large page count. I don't mind some, but I think the operative word there is 'some'. One every couple months I don't mind. I do like my regular book food to be smaller books, over 350 and under 500 pages.

I think my biggest problem with large books isn't that they take too long or I get distracted (which I do with some), but that they are 800 pages because they didn't get edited hard enough. Many long books don't need to be long or they would do themselves a bigger favour by being split into a series or trilogy.

If some people count short stories as books and some people count cookbooks, can I count recipes as books? My husband collects cookbooks. It has something to do with Rachel Ray and Paula Dean, I think.
I quit short stories after I read Faulkner's THE BEAR. I admit to reading 1/8 inch thick dime novels when I was in law school. Pure escapism, no thinking required. Some were pretty good, but I haven't listed them.
I am sure there are a lot of books you all haven't counted that you should count. Think about how long you have loved reading. Probably from age six. I saw DOUBLE TROUBLE FOR RUPERT for sale. I remember reading that book, and I remember that I liked it.
Then there are those books I have forgotten. When I see them on someone's list, I do add them to my 'read' list. If that is frowned upon, let me know.
Finally, what is it about Saturday that causes me to be long winded. This post could be a book. Name it and list it I say!

No, hahaha. I don't think actual recipes can be counted as they aren't 'books'. It has to be a book to be counted as a book.

I don't count short stories as books. I would probably count Novellas over 100 pages as a book, but I don't like to.
I read neither. I don't like short stories or novellas. To me they seem more like homework from highschool or a Creative writing class. They are so easy to write.
The skill is in writing a novel. As our authors can attest to, it is not easy to write a novel that works. With its plot, openings, endings, and most especially - its middle, the character development, varying levels of description.
Shorts and novellas are a walk in the park. In my opinion. I understand that not everyone will feel the same.

I am a legal writer, but in college I had to write a short story or two. Proffessor red inked all over those stories. I admire people who can write because it is not easy. I see we share the same views about reading short stories and novellas.

Linda wrote: "Proffessor red inked all over those stories..."

I just bet the professor couldn't write, himself.

Practicing law isn't easy. It all depends on what you love and want to do.

Just a throwaway remark.
If you have had any training in classical paintings or art history, it is very difficult to take seriously a book whose cover features a portion of a painting depicting something that supposedly happened half a millennium before the subject of the book, involving a different culture than the one addressed by the book, and whose primary figure (truncated on the cover) is featured in the painting with a completely bare backside.

I don't think he liked me. I was in first trimester of pregnancy, it was a summer school morning class. I went in the class with green gills and came out of class in worse condition. Next class was Biology. That Prof asked me every day if I was sick. We worked a deal involving my cousin who was in the same class. If I could make it through the class, my cousin could do my labs. He and his wife had several children so he understood.

The biology prof sounds delightful! He must have made up for the nasty writing fellow.

Diana wrote: "The woman who bragged about her ten books per year wrote erotica and sold on Kindle. (should have clarified).

Here's a guideline of fiction lengths:

http://www.fictionfactor.com/articles......"

Thanks, Diana for this info. I have seen other things but keep forgetting to copy them.
I guess my book is an epic. 512 pages-LOL.

Thank You!

I was doing things and updating things and looking over the list of groups (on GR) that I follow with more or less intensity. (hint: mostly less)

I thought I'd say that this group is a good one. It's enjoyable, welcoming and tolerant.

Thanks, all!

Terri wrote: "I am undecided on the large page count. I don't mind some, but I think the operative word there is 'some'. One every couple months I don't mind. I do like my regular book food to be smaller books, ..."

That is exactly what I like, Terri, between 300-500 pages. I don't read many short books(200 or less) because for some reason I feel to tell a really good story, it is hard to do so in 35 or so pages. I got one freebie on kindle which i saw to my dismay was only about 45 pages. And it was terrible. The story had no point and I kept thinking "more, more." I too rarely read exceptionally long books anymore(700 pages or over) unless the subject fascinates me.

Diana wrote: "Thank You!

I was doing things and updating things and looking over the list of groups (on GR) that I follow with more or less intensity. (hint: mostly less)

I thought I'd say that this group is ..."


No, no... Thank YOU

This group would be nothing without its members. So thankyou one and all.

Anne wrote: " That is exactly what I like, Terri, between 300-500 pages. I don't read many short books(200 or less) because for some reason I feel to tell a really good story, it is hard to do so in 35 or so pages. .."

In the past I have wondered why people I know on GR read so many books and while some, such as yourself, Anne, are just really good at speed reading, many others are reading all those supernatural, vamps, werewolf type books. Most of those books are between 200 and 350 pages. I'd be able to read a lot more books in my life too if I read such small books endlessly.

I am not a saint, Terri, i do read some romance, but try to weed out the trashy ones from the ones who know history and use it to write really interesting books with some romance in them > Monica McCarty and Marsha Canham are two I really like. I detest vampire books and will not read them. I have read a few with magic in them, but that is not my real love. I also love good mysteries, not stupid stuff-I could mention some I would not touch- and some thrillers. I am a sap for dogs and horses and have read some really good ones of that genre.

Have you ever read The Incredible Journey, Anne? I think most people have haven't they? A wonderful story.

I wish there were a group for Animal Fiction. ??

Terri wrote: "In the past I have wondered why people I know on GR read so many books ........reading all those supernatural, vamps, werewolf type books. Most of those books are between 200 and 350 pages. I'd be able to read a lot more books in my life too if I read such small books endlessly..."

I always figured that if I was still in my Harlequin Romance phase I could read 300 books in a year. :)
I have moved on alas and I must be content with a third that.