Fans of The Hollows series by Kim Harrison discussion

People ask Kim (on her site) every now and again about the possibility of bringing Kisten back, even if just as a ghost. Kim has always maintained that she wouldn't do that, that it would cheapen his sacrifice. Same with Ceri.

This is killing me! I think my heart stopped when I read "he had looked like kisten" please I need more spoilers! I need my fix!

A theory; kim mentioned a new "critter" called mystics right? What if that is why this guy is and like a demon he can alter his appearance to mess with Rachel's head? IE looking like kisten

Sorry to be such a newb but can someone tell me how to do that snazzy thing where you turn your spoiler into a tag that can be clicked on to reveal the spoiler and I will spoiler away (only on Chapters 1&2 of course). ;-)

Veronica G. wrote: "People ask Kim (on her site) every now and again about the possibility of bringing Kisten back, even if just as a ghost. Kim has always maintained that she wouldn't do that, that it would cheapen ..."
Yup, I don't think (view spoiler)[ mysterious guy from chapter two is Kisten, I don't think Kim would do that. My guess is it's a similar looking guy, with similar mannerisms/movement because of the vamp thing? (hide spoiler)]
Becca - Maybe it's a mystic..? But that doesn't sound like a Mystic-y sort of ability? I think clairvoyant/psychic sort of being when I hear mystic...
How many more months do we have to wait again?? o_O

Mellifluous wrote: "Sorry to be such a newb but can someone tell me how to do that snazzy thing where you turn your spoiler into a tag that can be clicked on to reveal the spoiler and I will spoiler away (only on Chap..."
Mellifluous - If you click on "(some html is ok)" from just above the comment box (right side) it will give you a pop up with some basic html format codes for hiding spoilers, and other useful things.
I didn't know about that until very recently either. :)

Yeah I agree. I just don't see her actually bringing kisten back. It can't be him. Rachel watched him die twice

I haven't read the chapter 2 yet but considering the circumstances with Cormel not wanting Rachel and Trent together, maybe he concocted some scheme to get Rachel distracted from Trent. I mean what is worse to a budding romance than the return of an old love?

Zeenat - I was wondering that too. (view spoiler)[ Maybe mysterious dude is not Kisten himself, but a vamp look-alike, sent to seduce Rachel away from Trent/the elf cause, and back to working on the vamp soul problem? Cormel has got to be concerned since Rachel has been spending so much time on Trent bodyguard duty. (hide spoiler)]

It's kind of interesting having already read the ARC to see everyone's speculations, seeing who is right on the money and who is in for a surprise. Now I know how Kim feels.

As for readers who would like chapter 2 and you've purchased the ebook in the past. I'm not sure for other companies, but if you purchased the ebook on Amazon.com at anytime, all you have to do is delete and re-download it and it will load with the latest version of the book which includes TUP chapter 2. I knew Amazon updated books, but another wonderful poster on Kim's blog explained it better.

Becca, that is exactly what I was thinking. (view spoiler)[ I too had read comments from Kim about not bringing Kisten back and all I can say is that if it really is Kisten, then boy oh boy, Kim has tricked us good! I don’t think she has though. (hide spoiler)] It makes me really curious about the mystic(s) though. It sounds as if Kim has given us another juicy bad guy to hate. Poor Rachel! Yet another "nasty little man with visions of world domination" to mess with her mind... lol I love you Al.

Thanks Amanda :-)

That's great that people who have previously bought GBU as an ebook can get chapter two w/o having to pay for it again.

As for Cormel, surely the man has figured out that an Ivy/Rachel romance isn't going to happen.

I have to say... the apocalyptic last sentence of Chapter 2 aside, the things I found most surprising about Chapter 2 were (in no particular order):

(view spoiler)[ 1. Relief that Rachel didn't jump into Trent's pants in Chapter 2 (sorry to everyone that is breathlessly waiting for R&T to DTD-I am too btw but I want to drag it out a bit more) but when Rachel says "Was I really seeing what I thought I was in Trent, or was I simply projecting what I wanted?" I felt like cheering her because for the first time ever she's not just letting her hormones do the thinking for her you go girl
2. I thought Rachel was also demonstrating an enhanced level of social/political awareness/maturity that I had not thought her capable of when she remarks: "there were better ways to fill his time than to court political calamity by asking me to work security"
3. When Rachel says "Trent wanted more, but he couldn't be two things at once. I had tried, and it had almost killed me" is she referring to the fact that she tried to find a blood balance with Ivy and it didn't work or is she thinking of something else?
4. I loved the description of the magic and Rachel's clear-headedness in breaking out of the inertia spell but now I want to know why everything feels more intense for her. If you recall, she felt the same way at the Golf Club in Chapter 1 after deflecting the ball, so it has to be something significant, doesn't it? Hopefully related to the mystic? I hope she asks Al...
5. Finally, I gotta say... I hope Rachel doesn't get her car back (for this book at least)... because then Trent can drive her everywhere mwahahahahahahaha.... (evil laughter) (hide spoiler)]

And there you have it. What do other people think?

I'm definitely wondering about the increased sensitivities too. I can really see how much Rachel has matured in these two chapters. I hope they release another chapter soon!!!!

With regards to #3, that's a good thought and is certainly possible. My mind went immediately to her whole witch vs. demon dilemma, and how she had to finally declare herself a demoness and accept all that came with it.

Well Mellifluous in reference to #4.

(view spoiler)[... (hide spoiler)]
I saw on Kim's (FB, web, or drama page) where shes was talking about the "sparkles" on auras and exactly when they started and that they were important and would be explained latter in the series. So maybe this is where we get that answer.

Also remember in EV when Quen's aura had "white" in it and that was significant because it had been a demon attack him?

(view spoiler)[... (hide spoiler)]
Did anyone else catch on the the mentions of wings, feathers and how Rachel felt when these happened? Rachel herself says later "but I was starting to see a pattern here, and I didn't like it."

To me it all seems to be related or relevant back to the attack on Quen in EV.

VampireNovelFan wrote: "It's kind of interesting having already read the ARC to see everyone's speculations, seeing who is right on the money and who is in for a surprise. Now I know how Kim feels.

As for readers who wo..."

I did that! It didn't work! Let me try again.

Zeenat wrote: "VampireNovelFan wrote: "It's kind of interesting having already read the ARC to see everyone's speculations, seeing who is right on the money and who is in for a surprise. Now I know how Kim feels...."
It didn't work for me either, I had to buy GBU again to get Chapter 2... I didn't even know you could buy a book again, but I guess it's a different edition from the first time I bought it or something? :(

I couldn't even buy GBU again. I tried to do that and Amazon just said I purchased it already.

I had bought the Kindle version already and Amazon let me buy the GBU again at $1.99 price so I could get the chapter 2. Maybe it depends on what reader e book version you got?

However Kim has said she will post it on her website but she did not say when exactly that would be.

If push comes to shove I'd just call Amazon. They are pretty good with customer service for this kind of stuff.

I'm not tooo concerned. it's only one chapter. I suppose I can be patient ;) lol

Zeenat wrote: "I'm not tooo concerned. it's only one chapter. I suppose I can be patient ;) lol"

God Bless you then because you must be an angel! I have been desperate for more since the first chapter on Kim's website. I devour every tidbit that I can find and I have no patience for waiting. Absolutely none. I could see all the spoilers and hints I would still have to own the book so I could read it as many times as I pleased. That is the point in my library collection. Read 'em!

lol only cause it was just one chapter. I'd be so mad if I missed the release date or something. I was annoyed enough to not receive an ARC lol

Me too! Maybe next year...

@zeenat

I just got the newest version, incl chapter 2, when I downloaded EA to my laptop. I usually use an ipad but macs now have iBook as part of the OS.

Maybe try downloading it to your computer instead of ereader?

Veronica, I totally agree with you about the witch/demon thing. That didn't even occur to me, but you are right. It could definitely be a reference to how Rachel craves a 'normal' life but her demon skills/affiliations don't allow her to. Come to think of it, when combined with the whole blood balance thing, Rachel has quite a bit of experience at trying to be two things at once. Trent jolly well ought to sit up and pay attention!

Kritchie-I read that comment about the sparkles on Kim's website and I agree. (view spoiler)[It occurred to me that Rachel saw the sparkles when she was trapped in the inertia spell because she needed to get out... so for once she had a purpose. I think Kim said that sparkles denote purpose or a goal. Good call remembering Quen's white aura in EA. I had totally forgotten, but now you mention it, could this be a sign that an aura is under some kind of stress? That would make sense I think. (hide spoiler)]

Still on the topic of auras, there seems to be a clear thread connecting the aura mythology in the books. Note that demon's auras clearly take three days to heal from extensive damage. When Al got his aura stripped in EA when he went in to check the hole in Rachel's line, he was out of action for three days. When Rachel created the tulpa in PD (and presumably stripped her aura in the process) she was unconscious for three days. When Ku-Sox tried to eat Rachel's soul in PD and Trent put her in the baby bottle, she was also in hospital on life support for three days. I didn't take note of how long Quen was in the desensitization tank in EA after Ku-Sox's attack but presumably it was approximately three days. Also, presumably, if Trent had had access to the tank when Ku-Sox chewed Rachel's soul in PD, he wouldn't have needed to put her soul in the baby bottle, but he could have put her in the tank instead. What I would like to know is-in the Ever After, both Al and Rachel were able to recover from what seemed to be quite extensive damage to their auras over a 3 day period with very little outside intervention (aside from sleeping it off) whereas in reality, the same injury could be life-threatening. An interesting comparison that has been bugging me for a while. Any ideas? Auras also seemed to play a role in BMS with the banshee (who I also recall could strip auras) but the damage done in this book to Rachel's aura was clearly not as extensive as in PD. Also, I think some spells seem to do this too. The familiar binding spell comes to mind as does the creation of the scrying mirror. I seem to recall that both incidents had an affect on Rachel's aura-even if it was only minor and temporary.

I thought the banshee was in WWBC. And I don't even remember anything about Quen being in a desentization tank in EA. Thank goodness for this re-read!

Good call on catching the three day healing timeframe. I had never noticed that.

@Mellifluous
That's really interesting! I remember "3" being the magic number of days but didn't think about the different interventions needed in reality versus in the ever-after.

Sorry-you are right-the banshee was in WWBC.

@Mellifluous

I finally connected the 3 day limit when it was mentioned in EV- Rachel's kitchen while she was talking with Quen about the Elfen Art Collection rings. She was reminding him how long his aura would be in danger based on how long Al would be out of it as well.

Al's was similar but I thought it was Ku'sox's curse in the sludge that hurt Al not the line.

The only aura damage that I see as different to all the others was Rachel's with Ku'sox trying to kill her in the line where she got it burned off in the ley lines because she couldn't get out and was found by Bis and treated by Trent while they were still on the West Coast, so no chamber in time to save her. He had to put her soul in the bottle right then or she would have died. However once in the baby bottle it is right back to the "3" days.

Mellifluous wrote: "Veronica, I totally agree with you about the witch/demon thing. That didn't even occur to me, but you are right. It could definitely be a reference to how Rachel craves a 'normal' life but her dem..."

About the sparkles I watched an old interview that Kim did online for EV tour and she was talking there about how important they are and everyone would understand as the next books come along.

About the Aurss...
I think the white aura, are damage like demon curses; the wings & feathers are the elfen goddess giving wild magic to show favor to Rachel. That would makes sense of all the sensitivity she feels after wards but doesn't know hoe it all goes together.

An UP ARC went up for sale on EBay already!: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/THE-UNDEAD-POO...

Kritchie wrote: I think the white aura, are damage like demon curses; the wings & feathers are the elfen goddess giving wild magic to show favor to Rachel. That would makes sense of all the sensitivity she feels after wards but doesn't know hoe it all goes together.

Wings and feathers? I don't remember wings and feathers involved with wild magic - did I miss something?

Re: Rachel being two things at once, and Trent wanting to be two things at once, I'd never put that together until now! So many layers...!

I noticed the (view spoiler)[ wings and feathers description (hide spoiler)] in Chapter 2. I must admit at the time I didn't think it was anything to do with elven magic but rather I had the feeling that it was associated with the mystics or maybe (view spoiler)[ it was simply the result of the inertia spell (hide spoiler)]

Oh, an ARC, an ARC, my kingdom for an ARC...

Wow it looks like both went for only US $54.99. For this early that's a steal! Last year the first one went for like $405!! Later ones were about a hundred a pop though.

VampireNovelFan wrote: "Wow it looks like both went for only US $54.99. For this early that's a steal! Last year the first one went for like $405!! Later ones were about a hundred a pop though."
Holy cats! $405!? $54.99 is indeed a steal then! :)

Mellifluous wrote: "I noticed the [spoilers removed] in Chapter 2. I must admit at the time I didn't think it was anything to do with elven magic but rather I had the feeling that it was associated with the mystics or..."
Must re-read chapter two apparently!

I just downloaded the Madison Avery books through kindle and they include TUP chapter 2!

Amanda wrote: "Kritchie wrote: I think the white aura, are damage like demon curses; the wings & feathers are the elfen goddess giving wild magic to show favor to Rachel. That would makes sense of all the sensiti..."

Yeah I noted the wings and feathers the first read and then I had to wonder what and why....

Maybe I am just too out of date but when you get the Privilege of an ARC that states on the Cover "Not For Sale". How and why would you do that?

I went through all the normal channels to get an ARC and it just stinks that someone that got one would sell that privilege.

Don't get me wrong - I would love to read one, I am dying trying to wait until 2/14 but it just seems wrong to me. Share an ARC I can see but sell... no.

I totally agree Kritchie, about the ethics of selling an ARC. I guess there are lots of people who get an ARC that aren't fans of the series (probably not urban fantasy bloggers/reviewers, but booksellers or librarians that don't dig the genre maybe?)
And there will always be a market for them online because the appeal of getting to read the series pre-release is pretty much universal for fans, and most of those fans won't be eligible for an ARC through the usual channels.

Amanda wrote: "I totally agree Kritchie, about the ethics of selling an ARC. I guess there are lots of people who get an ARC that aren't fans of the series (probably not urban fantasy bloggers/reviewers, but boo..."

Thanks, Amanda! I am a big fan but as such I feel loyalty to Kim and her publisher. I would love to read the story now too but yet it seems so wrong to cheat or betray them that I just had to say something. Too old fashioned and old in general not to.

Yeah it's wrong to sell an ARC. It's like downloading a book illegally online. I might spend a lot of money on a book, but only if it credits the authors. Especially because I don't think author's get paid enough for their work!

Don't forget people who are Amazon Vine members have been obtaining ARCs too. That's why I think eARCs are the way to go. You can't easily share them unless you plan to give the actual device away. It was a bit of an eye opener to look at my Ever After ARC from Kim last year and know it could have had a $405 price tag on it. But really it's priceless to me. As for the ebay thing, I believe Kim and her publishers are aware of the issue (people have linked to it on her site before), but it's been going on for years. I haven't seen any efforts to enforce it and I doubt there are more than 30 offered on Ebay from now until February. Doesn't make it right, but I guess it's not out of control enough for them to care. I don't really have a problem with individuals who want to buy them. It's supply and demand and people probably even sell them in stores under the table. If they want to spend that kind of money for their favorite series, that's their prerogative. They are doing it through a legal channel. If they care that much I couldn't imagine them not buying the final version. The blame lies on the seller and ebay.

It presents an interesting ethical dilemma. ARCs are released because publishers want people to talk and discuss the books in advance of their release to generate publicity about the release. The problem comes when the person who has been allowed into the preview screening of a movie takes footage with a mobile phone and puts it up on youtube or a torrenting site or when a person who has been given an ARC decides to redistribute it, pdf or epub it or sell it on ebay. For my money, I think that morallyspeaking the people who share or re-distribute the material for free are at least marginally ahead of those who seek to make a profit out of selling the books/movies-but then that's just my opinion. The real question is, if money were no object and I could afford to blow $405 of my hard-earned on an ARC, would I? That's a hard question. For a KH book it would be very very tempting but I am hoping that if I am ever confronted with the dilemma of an affordable ARC that I actually know about in enough time to bid for it (ha), I will be able to hold myself back because I know it is the right thing to do. On the other hand, would I accept the loan of an ARC... hmmnnnn. Let's just say the jury is still out on that one ;-)

I don't have anything against Hollows fans buying the e-bay ARC IF they also buy the book. Which helps the author.
I just don't like the ethics of the seller on e-bay. I do acknowledge that once an ARC is given to a person, little can be done and people will be people and someone, somewhere will make money on it.

I just published my first novel and from previous experience with my artwork (on web)being stolen and used on the web. This hit me in a sore spot. Author, artist, or any creator of media is so easily stolen from due to web sites. I just hate to see it happen to Kim too.

I don't want to deceive though: I am a rabid fan and if any chapters or hints are freely released, I would be first in line and panting in excitement!

As for Mellifluous final question...Loan of a ARC? Now that is a real temptation I do agree. However I still will own the book for my collection regardless of what I find or read before 2/14. I love to re-read my books too much to not own the actual hardback book. No e-book will suit for that.

Yup, I think anyone hunting on eBay for an ARC (and willing to pay the $$$) is a big fan of the series, and is probably going to buy the book when it releases anyway. But boo to people selling them on eBay anyway, instead of treasuring them like everyone here clearly would.