Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

James wrote: "Starting to think we are dealing with a much greater evil than assumed, Anni... Uh Oh!"

Sadly, James, I have to agree that this is a spiritual battle now for our bodies, minds and souls ...
Never believed in it before, but perhaps the stuff in the Bible is right, after all !

Yeah it does seem like a Biblical-level good vs evil scenario...Or a Star Wars one :)

Anyway, I think the virus issue and even the political level in general is just an outer layer of whatever we are actually dealing with...

James wrote: "Yeah it does seem like a Biblical-level good vs evil scenario...Or a Star Wars one :)

Anyway, I think the virus issue and even the political level in general is just an outer layer of whatever we ..."

👍🏻

Donald Trump claims doctors inflate Covid-19 death figures to get paid more money https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politic...
The President claimed doctors get paid $2,000 more if they put coronavirus down as the cause of death.

Check out the video in this tweet by leading NYC doctor and board-certified urologist, Dr. David Samadi, MD @drdavidsamadi...

https://twitter.com/drdavidsamadi/sta...

Revealing that "CDC numbers reveal hospitals counted over 130K deaths from pneumonia, influenza, heart attacks, as COVID-19"

James wrote: "Starting to think we are dealing with a much greater evil than assumed, Anni... Uh Oh!"

I agree with you James. There is a greater evil out there. I think it's part of the "Swamp Drain." Just look at who is getting Covid-19 the most: the elderly, and the poor. They get most of their support by doing nothing and take from Uncle Sam. DT hates that and wants to stop it. He has other uses for government money. Corruption maybe what he wants to end, but not his, and he makes the excuse by ignoring the precautions to lesson the spread of the disease.

GR wrote: "James wrote: "Starting to think we are dealing with a much greater evil than assumed, Anni... Uh Oh!"

I agree with you James. There is a greater evil out there. I think it's part of the "Swamp Dra..."

I think that large bee in your bonnet about Trump is misplaced.
And you are wrong about who the evil-doers in this world are.
The evil-doers are the wealthy elites with their globalist agenda and the politicians, together with the media, who have been bribed or blackmailed into supporting them to destroy the world economies.

They are the ones who want to form the New World Order/Great Re-Set/ One World Marxist/Totalitarian regime in order to enslave the masses. They want to destroy the nation states, whereas Trump is a fervent Nationalist and believer in democracy.

Big Pharma and many members of the medical profession are also complicit in this ‘pandemic’ scam in order to profit from the billions to be made out of vaccinations.
As coronavirus is a flu-type of virus, obviously the people who have a compromised immune system or who are obese or very old will be the first to succumb in any outbreak.

Anni wrote: "GR wrote: "James wrote: "Starting to think we are dealing with a much greater evil than assumed, Anni... Uh Oh!"

I agree with you James. There is a greater evil out there. I think it's part of the..."

Anni, don't be alarmed, Trump isn't any different than the big bosses of the world wanting world control. He just want his own agenda in history. Once he gets his way, another presidency, he'll be like the last great dictators--Hitler and Stalin. Trump will keep the peace by assuring everybody a social agenda, just like Hitler and Stalin. And anybody that sidesteps his dictates will vanish out of sight. Mark my words! He's the next Anti-Christ.

The Great reset. Scary stuff. James how are things in Aussie https://youtu.be/VefowC0TUu8

Janet wrote: "The Great reset. Scary stuff. James how are things in Aussie https://youtu.be/VefowC0TUu8"

Janet - The link you posted ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vefow... ) should be compulsory viewing! The Great Reset you refer to, for those who don't know, refers to the 'resetting' of parameters of life as we know it - incl. finance, politics, religion, freedoms etc. - using Coronavirus as the excuse for this so-called Great Reset. I hope Undergrounders check it out...It'll bring clarity to a lot of the crazy stuff that's going down right now.

Yes Lance. The world as we know it is in great jeopardy. Give your great son James my regards.

The book STOPPNow is all about Big PhRMA and the power they hold. The big reset is extremely disturbing. Didn’t we all think Bill Gates was a good guy? Steve Jobs was so arrogant but I cannot believe he would be complacent with this scheme.

Yes!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...

Beau wrote: "Yes!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic..."

The Right are the only ones fighting for individual freedoms, dontcha think?
Left have devolved into the Radical Left, no?

James wrote: "Beau wrote: "Yes!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic..."

The Right are the only ones fighting for individual freedoms, dontcha think?
Left have devolved into the Radical Left, no?"

James, I've voted for left-of-centre parties all my life. In recent years, I've had a few misgivings about this because of their lurch to extremes but still thought voting for them was the best thing to do.

Over the lockdown issue, I've finally snapped. We might have a so-called right-wing government but the public support for their draconian measures is all coming from the the usual suspects on the left. Also, UK Labour has been campaigning for even more stringent controls.

The left no longer have any respect for liberty, democracy, the rule of law or anything else that's positive about human society. I've had enough of them. They can stick their soft shoes, chiffon scarves and expensive cologne where the sun doesn't shine.

Nigel's support and influence will be worth one hundred backbench MPs. Great to see him re-entering the political fray this side of the Atlantic.

Agree 100% Beau. You hit the nail on the head.
I think those on the Left in the 70s, 1980s or 90s who stood against the likes of Thatcherism or Reaganism would be viewed as Right wing compared to these modern Leftist nutjobs in the New Left...They are flirting with extremism.

They’re more than flirting with extremism their views are those of marxism.

James wrote: "Agree 100% Beau. You hit the nail on the head.
I think those on the Left in the 70s, 1980s or 90s who stood against the likes of Thatcherism or Reaganism would be viewed as Right wing compared to ..."

James, it's you and your dad who always seem to hit the nail on the head. You ask the right questions, get us all thinking and are voices of reason in an increasingly mad world.

If ever you decide to rebrand Underground Knowledge, you could call it Sensible, Thoughtful, Common Sense Human Knowledge. I know it's a bit of a mouthful but the marketing people will come up with something catchy.

Thank you. Glad to hear you're enjoying the group (it's nothing without the members aka Undergrounders!). J

Anni wrote: "It’s all part of the psychological demoralising of the populace to make them panic and obey.
Have you all read ‘Behold a Pale Horse’ by William Cooper?
... tells you all you need to know.
(it’s in..."

Yes Anni Bill Cooper's Behold a Pale Horse was way ahead of its time. No doubt he was mostly laughed out when that was originally published (perhaps the 80s or 90s). Not so funny now tho as it seems 2020 is proving many of those concepts right before our eyes...

James wrote: "Anni wrote: "It’s all part of the psychological demoralising of the populace to make them panic and obey.
Have you all read ‘Behold a Pale Horse’ by William Cooper?
... tells you all you need to kn..."

Agree with Beau - it’s great to be in the company of like-minded people who can recognise the insanity going on around us everywhere on the planet!!
Thank you James and Lance for this platform 🙏

Anni wrote: "Agree with Beau - it’s great to be in the company of like-minded people who can recognise the insanity going on around us everywhere on the planet!!
Thank you James and Lance for this platform"

I would like to echo this sentiment. I am in a couple Facebook groups, but they tend to be religious and hardcore Trumpers, so I don't exactly fit in there.

Scott wrote: "Anni wrote: "Agree with Beau - it’s great to be in the company of like-minded people who can recognise the insanity going on around us everywhere on the planet!!
Thank you James and Lance for this ..."

Scott, I've read your posts on the election thread before and agree with practically everything you say.

From the UK, I've been watching clips of the campaign trail on BBC & ITV news. They're our two biggest, best-established television channels but neither favour Trump. That said, in recent weeks, I've seen with my own eyes (no need for expert political analysis or second hand opinions) that at least half of his supporters at the rallies and demonstrations are women, and that they appear to include large numbers of black and Hispanic people too.

Thing is, we've had it rammed down our throats for 4 years that Trump is a racist and misogynist. I presume the women and non-white people I saw campaigning for him must disagree with this. Perhaps some Democrats can explain why?

Heck, I've been called those things too! It's all they've got. No real argument so they resort to name-calling.

I'm not saying there aren't genuine criticisms to make of Trump... but I guess it's too much work for them?

You know what... even if he was a racist and a misogynist, the state of the nation is in such a crisis from the left that I'd still vote for him.

It always puzzled me: What is FREEDOM if you don't have money? With 30 million poor people in the US, what can they do? Maybe air is free to breath, but where I came from it was a big problem. I'd gag, and choke from LA's smog. But then, I had money to leave. And luckily I still do.

Also, defecating is free, eating out of garbage cans is free? Sleeping in cardboard boxes, under bridges, in alleyways, asking for handouts, going to soup kitchens is free. Maybe going to emergency wards. And surely dying is free. Can anybody add anything else?

Money is a big part of freedom. The more you have, the freer you are. It guarantees your constitutional rights. Money controls everything, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and everyone who wants that. Has anybody considered that?

Hi GR. Firstly, as we’re on the lockdown thread, off the top of my head, here are a few freedoms that have been taken away in the UK (and other parts of the democratic world) since March:

The freedom to leave your home when you want to and feel the sun on your face and wind in your hair; the right to go out to work to support your family; the opportunity to see loved ones (very keenly felt in care homes); the right to lifesaving treatment (e.g. cancer) from the NHS, having paid into the system for the whole of your adult life; the chance to put your arm around your mother at your father’s funeral, without being told to get back and observe social distancing protocol; the freedom to make your own risk assessments and decisions in life, without having people who don’t know you decide them; and the democratic right for your elected MP to properly scrutinise the actions of a government which has grabbed unprecedented powers. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Precious freedoms have been put on hold for a flu-like virus with an incredibly low mortality rate. I, for one, will never take liberty for granted again.

What about the rights of people in danger from coronavirus, some say? What about their right to feel safe? Well, here’s a solution: anybody who is frightened should be given full financial support to isolate at home for as long as they want. This can be until the virus fizzles out, a vaccine is found or for the rest of their lives. Meanwhile, the rest of us go about our business, make our own risk assessments and keep the country running. This includes the elderly and vulnerable, who have as much right and dignity as anybody else to make their own decisions in life.

I would bet my bottom dollar this solution would cost the country less financially (certainly socially and psychologically) than the current fiasco.

Away from corona, I completely agree with your assessment of how the lack of money severely limits freedoms. The move towards extreme global capitalism over the last 40 years has caused many problems in countries like the UK. It’s why, in the past, I have voted for left of centre parties.

Personally, I would like to see less financial inequality but certainly not the opposite extreme of Marxism, which some people in the West appear to now favour. They only need to open up a history book to see why this is the wrong approach. Whatever happened to the sensible idea of a mixed economy? Let’s reward hard work and talent, but provide a proper safety net for those who struggle. Begs the question why UK left-wing politicians keep ignoring it; instead preferring to focus on fringe issues and identity politics, which divide rather than unite us.

Many American voters appear to be caught between a rock and a hard place too at the moment, but if the Democrats provide the solution to the inequalities you mention, why were they so prevalent during the Clinton and Obama years too? Why was Trump ever elected? I appreciate you might be doing things better in Germany, you normally do…you have a mixed economy, after all.

I'm a believer in mixed economic systems too, Beau.

Beau wrote: "Hi GR. Firstly, as we’re on the lockdown thread, off the top of my head, here are a few freedoms that have been taken away in the UK (and other parts of the democratic world) since March:

The fre..."

Thanks, Beau - you’ve summed up my feelings exactly. Our Labour Party has been infiltrated by Marxists and globalists and so has the US Democrat Party. Trump is not perfect by any means, but at least he is a Nationalist.

Agreed 100% Beau.
What's amazing is that I know psychologists who don't seem to see these hidden dangers at all. They haven't said a word and are happy to go along.

It's pretty interesting how everything else in science has to be thoroughly verified thru the extensive "scientific process", yet this present virus narrative only needs the right scientists to support it and governments get fully behind it...

Data used to justify England's second national lockdown is 'proven' to be false, Prof Carl Heneghan claims https://uk.news.yahoo.com/data-used-j...

that was my first thought when the.. plandemic...presented here. But not is it about something more, more like WHAT is the something more..

Tara wrote: "that was my first thought when the.. plandemic...presented here. But not is it about something more, more like WHAT is the something more.."

You're not alone in thinking that, Tara. It's all part of a major reset I feel. A reset of what and by whom exactly I'm not sure. I guess the so-called global elites have something to do with it.

Beau wrote: "Hi GR. Firstly, as we’re on the lockdown thread, off the top of my head, here are a few freedoms that have been taken away in the UK (and other parts of the democratic world) since March:

The fre..."

Yes, the lockdown has taken away a lot of freedoms, BUT, I don't want to be responsible for someone's death because I was negligent. I'd rather have the lockdown than end up on my death bed, see my wife die, or cause someone else to die. I'm 83 years old. I'm compromised. I can easily be part of the unfortuate.

EN wrote: "Beau wrote: "Hi GR. Firstly, as we’re on the lockdown thread, off the top of my head, here are a few freedoms that have been taken away in the UK (and other parts of the democratic world) since Mar..."

I very much hope that you and your wife enjoy a happy and healthy retirement for many years to come, EN. I have only visited Germany once but would love to return sometime soon.

Please don't think I'm being flippant about the virus. As I said in my last message, I believe it would be fair if anyone who's worried is thoroughly supported and helped to isolate for as long as they wish.

I appreciate what you say about not wanting to infect others too. Nobody in their right mind would want to do that. However, you could make that same argument about any potentially lethal contagious illness, even the flu. We have to draw a line somewhere and accept that everything in life carries a risk.

My argument is about proportionate response. It's not a case of economy vs loss of life; it's loss of life caused by cancelled operations, deteriorating mental health and economic hardship vs loss of life through coronavirus. I have felt all along that the lockdown 'medicine', for society as a whole, is going to be worse than the illness itself.

The young generation coming through are likely to find life much tougher than either of our generations. I don't want them to pick up the bill for these lockdowns and I don't want them to grow up in a society that periodically or permanently accepts a loss of liberty either. Regarding the latter, there is a very real danger that if we allow lockdowns to continue then the rights we take for granted will slowly start to disappear through the back door.

I urge anyone who doubts this to google Lord Jonathan Sumption's views on it. He strikes me as a balanced, highly intelligent, thoughtful man, who is very concerned about what is happening. In this world of wildly conflicting views and fake news, he is an establishment voice I still trust.

Of course, we might both be missing the real point here. I have a lot of time for views like Tara's - something, somewhere in all of this just doesn't add up.

And I'd like to add. Whatever you dream up, whatever you hate, whatever anyone's mind can conger-up will eventually happen. I've lived a long life, according to statistics and I should have died ten years ago, but I haven't. I'm healthy and hope to live another 5 to 10 years.

I've seen a lot over the years, and one of them is what happens when you do something. What happens in life repeats over and over to and others. Another thing I've noticed in life, what one does, eventually will happen to him/her. What is so sad, everything we do, that's bad, effects the innocent. An example: WAR.

An added comment:

You don't have to read ScFi to get a picture of the future. If you are aware of the past and present, you see the future. If you know your history, you know what is coming. Humankind was once food--the last time was a century ago: cannibalism in South America and New Zealand--it may still be on the menu somewhere on earth. Tomorrow, we may be again somebody's lunch. I wrote a book about such a thing. It hasn't been published. The thought is horrid and it may never see its light. Population became so large, the only way to continue was to eat other humans. That scenario isn't new: Soylent Green and others are examples. But my story differs, humans are raised for food by the super-intelligent (you can see that coming). Man merely becomes another animal for consumption--much like "The Time Machine" by HG Wells.

As time goes by, I've lived 83 of them, I've noticed one thing about humankind. As population increases, the more we are less likely to care about others, nations, earth. Our morals and values decrease. We become more self-centered and selfish. An example is China, India, USA. The more society increases, the less human LIFE has importance and the SELF becomes more important. We leave the poor in emergency rooms to die--homeless victims to mortgages and self-interests. Starting wars to test its power. This is what bothers me. The less we receive for our efforts, the more we fight for our rights, because if we don't, someone will take them away from us. It doesn't need to be governments, it can be an irate spouse, your boss, your landlord, your church. All institution are like people, they are on the defensive, no matter how benign. The more powerful they get, they take, and the less you get. Human rights comes less as society increases. It's all about population.

I'm not so much worried about governments because they can change. What worries me, is my neighbor. If he has a mortgage, a car payment, outstanding bills, and can't pay for them, that can effect me. His envy may point his finger at me. If everyone has to fight for everything, I might be the innocent victim caught up in his mess, and left with his ball in my court. I've seen it. The innocent victim becomes the scapegoat. I've been down that path before, and I don't like it. Whoever has the money has the control. He's the one I fear. That's why I live in Germany--what is their to fear? Tell me.

GR wrote: "An added comment:

You don't have to read ScFi to get a picture of the future. If you are aware of the past and present, you see the future. If you know your history, you know what is coming. Human..."

I agree with some of what you say, particularly the bit about history often repeating itself.

To the inquisitive mind, the future can sometimes look very frightening but I think it's also important to appreciate the positives in the here and now, and also to believe that the number of good people in the world outweigh the bad.

I'm currently reading a series of books by a goodreads author called Malcolm Wardlaw. They are dystopian political thrillers, set in the early 22nd century. Although I wouldn't exactly describe them as uplifting, these books are compelling reading.

Without giving any spoilers away, I have a feeling that you and many other members of the group might enjoy them. Here's a link to the first one, in case you're interested:

Death by Decent Society

EN wrote: "Yes, the lockdown has taken away a lot of freedoms, BUT, I don't want to be responsible for someone's death because I was negligent. I'd rather have the lockdown than end up on my death bed, see my wife die, or cause someone else to die. I'm 83 years old. I'm compromised. I can easily be part of the unfortuate."

More people are going to die because of the lockdowns. The virus isn't an instant death sentence; it has a 99%+ survival rate, even among elderly. But many people cannot cope with this unnatural and inhuman state of affairs. Mental illness (much harder to cure) increases, suicides rise. People can't get cancer treatment because they're being shoved aside to deal with COVID-hysterical people.

People are dying alone (of other things) because their families are not allowed to visit them!

Compromised people are free to lock themselves down.

Scott wrote: "Agreed 100% Beau.
What's amazing is that I know psychologists who don't seem to see these hidden dangers at all. They haven't said a word and are happy to go along."

Here in Germany, I hear a lot about the psychological problems people are having in the lockdown--loneliness, lack social intercourse, and touching. The thing I find with these people, they haven't anything to DO! They're bored with themselves and need outside stimulation to escape from their doldrums. If they had a hobby or other interests, I don't think they would be so alone. Since I write a lot, it take much of my time, I'm never bored. I can't wait to get up in the morning and read a book for the first 2 hours, and then begin writing my stories. Any thoughts?

I've always had the philosophy: give a person something he like to do and let him do it. If you paid him to do it, all the better. I believe he would become a slave to his dream. I have and I don't get paid for it.

GR wrote: "Scott wrote: "Agreed 100% Beau.
What's amazing is that I know psychologists who don't seem to see these hidden dangers at all. They haven't said a word and are happy to go along."

Here in Germany,..."
The high suicide rates have nothing to do with boredom or needing a hobby and I resent your trivialising of the issue in this way.
I agree with you that the devil makes work for idle hands - but have you considered that perhaps this is part of the evil conspiracy by the ruling Elites against the general population, along with their deliberate divide and rule tactics?

I'm glad you don't need much social interaction--I used to be that way too--but most people do. I have plenty to "do" but it's no substitute for seeing people and talking to them in person.

I didn't have or require a ton of social interaction before but what I had was adequate. Now the lockdown has killed my book club and my best friend won't see me unless she wears a mask and stays six feet away. I'm not even sure I can call someone like that a friend.

Now I spend even more hours a day playing an MMO because it is the only way I can be "around" other people.

Scott wrote: "I'm glad you don't need much social interaction--I used to be that way too--but most people do. I have plenty to "do" but it's no substitute for seeing people and talking to them in person.

I did..."

You’re right Scott - it’s not the lack of things to do that’s the killer, it’s the lack of human contact, which is actually used as a torture technique when putting someone into solitary confinement.

I completely agree with Anni and Scott's posts.

Not so much on this thread but generally speaking, I've noticed that lockdown enthusiasts have a tendency to pooh-pooh concerns over mental health, ignore people with non-corona life-threatening conditions and trivialise the economic issues. Why is this?

I accept that coronavirus can be a deadly illness, so why are the lockdown supporters on the other side of this argument all to ready to dismiss anything and anyone who fails to bow down before their false god, covid?

Anni wrote: "You’re right Scott - it’s not the lack of things to do that’s the killer, it’s the lack of human contact, which is actually used as a torture technique when putting someone into solitary confinement."

So many people just don't get it. I used to think I was the weird one, but the whole world's gone bizarro now.

Scott wrote: "Anni wrote: "You’re right Scott - it’s not the lack of things to do that’s the killer, it’s the lack of human contact, which is actually used as a torture technique when putting someone into solita..."

Hang in there, Scott. The consensus is now broken. Underground had to hold the fort for a while but now mainstream politicians, scientists and journalists are coming around to our way of thinking.

Trust me, in 2-3 years time, you won't be able to find anyone who ever supported lockdowns.

GR wrote: "I've always had the philosophy: give a person something he like to do and let him do it.,..."

How about this philosophy: give a person FREEDOM.

How'd do you like them apples? Is that too much to ask?

Beau wrote: "Not so much on this thread but generally speaking, I've noticed that lockdown enthusiasts have a tendency to pooh-pooh concerns over mental health, ignore people with non-corona life-threatening conditions and trivialise the economic issues. ..."

Yes all the lockdown enthusiasts in this discussion thread, especially early on but still now with one or two, dismiss all the serious issues you raise. I think it often has to do with them being relatively comfortable in their lives, and seeing things subjectively.

We need to think objectively on this issue and think of billions of people worldwide and all the different scenarios and personalities.

Scott wrote: "So many people just don't get it. I used to think I was the weird one, but the whole world's gone bizarro now...."

You're amongst like minds here in the Underground, Scott :)

Beau wrote: "I accept that coronavirus can be a deadly illness, so why are the lockdown supporters on the other side of this argument all to ready to dismiss anything and anyone who fails to bow down before their false god, covid? ..."

Perefectly analogy, Beau...I believe we are seeing cult-like thinking from the true covid believers...it's become religion like and is not rooted in rational thinking and is not only hysterical at times but also extremely dogmatic to the point of the believers supporting the silencing of any of their fellow citizens who resist in any way.

So...it's a wee bit serious, shall we say!

James wrote: "Scott wrote: "So many people just don't get it. I used to think I was the weird one, but the whole world's gone bizarro now...."

You're amongst like minds here in the Underground, Scott :)"

You’re not alone here, Scott 🤗